Remove API support for addons.
No threat-meters.
No DBM.
Guaranteed, BWL will be a wipefest without those two.
Or, instead of ruining everyone else’s fun, you could just, as a raid group, not use addons.
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classic isnt meant to be hard, raids are loot pinatas for friend groups to team up for every week.
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if you want your raids to be harder you can do it with your guild
it is possible to not use addons, we dont need a prohibition to be implemented
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Or, you could just skip buffs, delete your addons, and remove some gear so you don’t screw things up for everyone else.
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Sure. And LFR/LFD were great features as well. Because hey, if you don’t like them, “instead of ruining everyone else’s fun, you could just not use them”
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Vanilla wasnt hard, and was launched with full support (intentionally) for addons, they even designed the game around addons, check some of the original documentaries for WoW prior to release of the game.
But just going off your logic, all you will do is force everyone to reduce their performance to manage threat, making the fights longer, not harder.
Furthermore a lot of guilds are actually stuck on BWL progression, go have a look at the success clear rate of the raid compared to MC in the same time span.
That’s a good point, kudos for that. I think addons have gone too far though. We have addons today that tell people exactly what to do, and when to do it. There is no room for “judgement” or “intuition” or “estimating stuff”.
For example, back in early Vanilla, people had to estimate how much dps they could do, based on their estimate of how much threat their tank could output. If your judgement was off, or if a new tank came in and was slower, it could easily wipe the raid. Just DPSing like a snail wouldn’t work either - either your healers woudl OOM or the bosses would enrage. These were real challenges which required a lot of intuition and experience to overcome. But today, people just watch their addons and they know exactly what to do.
If you look at the evolution of wow, we see raids become more and more “complex” in terms of mechanics. Like in retail, where bosses have tons of mechanics. Blizzard is being forced to do this, just to make the game challenging. Because the fundamentals of the game, such as managing threat and watching for spell casts, have been made trivially easy by addons. If we took away addons, I think we’ll start to realize how challenging even a “solved” game like classic can be, even without a million boss mechanics.
Why bother?
Add-ons are a player choice. As is the use of BiS. If folks want harder raid, use classi-speciffic gear and no add-ons.
The issue is, you cannot unlearn the knowledge we have about the game, gamers are different as a whole, sure I may have been ok at the game back then, but I’m sure way better now and even how I play is different, even things such as back then majority of the guilds did not bother optimizing world/instance buffs, or personal consumables, our power has increased dramatically because we are using more tools than we did before, however the tools were available the whole time.
Truth is, we cannot be as bad as we were in vanilla, not with today’s knowledge/buffs/consumables/style of play.
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There are a myriad of ways in which you can challenge yourself and your guild. Do an ironman raid with no rezzes and see how far you can go. Or something like that.
True, but that doesn’t mean you can’t make the game more challenging in other ways. Like removing support for addons like threatmeter or dbm.
There are a myriad of ways in which you can challenge yourself and your guild. Do an ironman raid with no rezzes and see how far you can go. Or something like that.
It’s bad game design to expect your players to artificially gimp themselves, with no additional reward, just to make the game reasonably challenging.
There is a way to have raids harder and also get more loot per person.
Do them with smaller raid.
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i’ve been hearing for a decade how hard AQ and Naxx were.
Your raid logs suggest you should use addons.
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I agree that’s the best way. Instead of artificially making your play suboptimal, just take fewer people and other than that min max to your heart’s content.
If you don’t like addons, don’t use um. But I like mine and would like them to stay intact.
Live and let live, this isn’t the flying argument.
But you’re asking to gimp the entire player base, and again you’re not forced to use addons
Funny thing is, the addons in Classic are pretty toned down to what was allowed in Vanilla. Decusive, for example, was as close to cheating as you could possibly have without actually cheating.
1-button cleans that required no targeting, and it chose the right spell to remove the debuff for you. In vanilla our paladin’s strat on Chromaggus was to literally spam their decursive macro and nothing else.
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True. The macros were pretty sick too. You could have a single macro that runs through 5 different GCD abilities, and it will fire off the first one that can be cast successfully.
Thing was though, the addons were still under heavy development, a lot of people didn’t know they existed, and many others flat out refused to use them. For example, a lot of guilds never really used any threat meters. People were just told to “wait a while” and “don’t dps too much”. Addons were way too powerful, but people just didn’t realize it.
But you’re asking to gimp the entire player base, and again you’re not forced to use addons
Sure, and taking away heirlooms is gimping the entire player base, and again, you’re not forced to use heirlooms.
Those were part of the game. They are authentic. Try again.
Also raids were never hard in vanilla.
I hate to say it but if you find them hard now. Well you are just bad.