Allow them to put two runes on their two hander.
8 Likes
Its a start but doesn’t address the problem with KM proccing off auto attack crits (thus inherently favoring DW)
Razorice should just be baked into MotFW and KM should have its proc rate normalized so it doesn’t benefit or fall behind based on weapon speeds. That way both specs are at least on mostly even footing.
Also Frostscythe needs a good buff for 2h in particular.
All that aside, Frost is weak across the board. The repeated nerfs late in Beta were unneeded and crippled the spec.
22 Likes
Completely agree. I want Frost 2h to be viable so bad, but knowing Blizzard’s history with this kind of stuff, we will be in the bottom 3rd on the dps charts forever.
4 Likes
Double rune enchants + more KM procs + AoE tuning.
I still am a firm believer that 2h shouldnt be AoE oriented and should continue to be less effective in AoE than duel wield, The two playstyles need distinction in order to prevent homogenization.
Make 2h single target focused, Fix/change killing machine, Or even add additional ways for it to proc in our rotation outside of auto crits for 2h maybe attach a chance for rime to proc killing machine on 2h, Or every X frost strikes to encourage that button to be used a bit more with good reward
As for the runeforge i mean you could bake razorice into the spec but i feel like if any runeforge got baked in it should be fallen crusader since it can also then be baked into unholy and allow them to possibly use the rune literally designed just for their spec
4 Likes
Cool but you’re wrong.
The facts are that DW is ahead on ST even with 2h’s specific buffs and is also ahead massively on AoE. DW/2h WW and TG/SMF Fury don’t have this discrepancy and their playstyles are exactly the same.
There’s literally 0 reason that 2h should play different from DW. It should be an entirely cosmetic choice at this point, just like every other MDPS.
KM should proc off Frost Fever ticks only. MotFW needs to be removed and replaced with a passive that lets 2h passively stack Razorice. Frost AoE baseline needs a rework.
That’s all frost needs and creating 2 different “focuses” inside a spec is just asking for 2h to get removed again.
13 Likes
Disagree.
A preference in weapon aesthetics is not a good enough reason to boost/hamper performance in different parts of the game.
5 Likes
Two enchantments on a weapon does not sound feasible at all.
It’s like you’re making a hard coding exception for a sub spec of a class.
1 Like
Not sure what you mean.
It seems quite easy to do. Even if there is some sort of enchant limitation on how weapons are coded, they could easily implement it as a buff/passive that’s triggered when you equip a 2H weapon.
So in other words, instead of giving 2h an obliterate buff which is what was supposed to address the 2 runeforges for DW, they should have given 2h a passive razorice and actually fixed the issue instead?
Might of the Frozen Waste however was the playerbase idea, and now that design is done, they dont like what they created. Im very tempted to suggest people to live with it because its what they pushed for. 2h is a player suggestion, MotFW was a player suggestion, KM rank 2 was a player suggestion.
1 Like
Let’s not conflate player suggestion as a bad thing though. Yes, the 2h suggestions have generally been garbage, but KM rank 2 is a fine addition to Frost as whole.
KM rank 2 is one of those things that while its fine because it can be balanced to achieve an end result, it feels absolutely horrible outside of KM procs to press obliterate. You feast or famine with obliterate. I would say that usually when you have these types of mechanics its something that you dont constantly use. Howling Blast for exmaple with Rime. You dont spam howling blast so getting rime and it having this 300% increase in its damage is fine. Obliterate with KM rank 2 is the exact opposite.
2 Likes
KM should never have been changed to require crits in the first place. I do agree with adding the effect of razor ice to MotF, however. Or, as the OP suggested, allowing the placement of two runes on a single two-hander. It would be a step in the right direction.
7 Likes
MoTFW might have been the players idea but Blizzard decided how the talent was going work mechanically. Nothing wrong with MoTFW as a concept, its the implementation by the developers that hasn’t resolved the issues, yet.
MoTFW could have easily given the Razorice effect for example…that is on the developers not the players. Players provide insight into how they want to play the game and can even test changes but the developers are the ones with the sandbox.
Players
- We want 2H Frost
- We want Oblierate to hit hard and be a focal point
- Why not have a talent like MoTFW?
Developers
- Its our job to make that a reality through the mechanics we deploy
- We decided MoTFW in its current iteration was the right direction
MoTFW not working isn’t the fault of the forums or players it simply through poor design at Blizzards end.
11 Likes
Alternatively, why couldnt Obliterate get the Chaos Bolt treatment?
If 2h players want Obliterate to be the focus, make it always crit and crit big just like Chaos Bolt does. Seems simple enough. If we want to address AoE while we’re at it, give 2h a modifier for increased Rime procs off Oblits or guarantee’d ones off KM Oblits.
That said, the way KM works and the lack of Razorice passively means 2h will always be at a disadvantage from a mechanical standpoint. The way that the Devs have addressed that in the past was to just keep buffing Oblit via MotFW. But thats worked out SO well for them before hasnt it…
And yet here are again back at the same place we were in WoD where 2h is weak because the base spec is built to favor 1 sub spec over the other.
3 Likes
Warlocks don’t hit chaos bolt 20 times a minute.
Also considering obliterate is like 40% of frost’s damage, this is a great way to make the crit stat irrelevant.
Ok then tweak the numbers? And how would it make crit irrelevant if crit chance boosts the damage? [Visible Confusion]
Frost doesnt need fixing… take an aoe talent take obliteration, and use PoF on CD…
Frost syth is trash, take glacial and use it on 2+ mobs replacing frost strike.
Also, razor ice is simming higher dps as well.
Take the increase weapon speed talent in the first row as well, will help getting more weapon swings in for more KM procs. You can ignore haste all together and 40% mastery and 20%+ crit
People are complaining about the spec, but not talented correctly, or not properly using their cds.
Frost is actually straight up owning right now.
PvP is different, death strike healing needs a buff, other than that, you can legit pull/stun - cds and kill someone in a PoF window
1 Like
Riiiight…
Lets listen to the guy who has Razorice on his 2h and has Glacial Advance over the people who have actually done the math…
3 Likes
I think the only way this will be a reality is if weapon type is just a cosmetic and 2H and 1H play the same
4 Likes