- Can we make the queue acceptance timer slower? If I am using the restroom, I don’t have time to accept the invite. Wasting 20 minutes or more time. OR if a player requeues immediately after the timer expires there is a priority system in place.
- I don’t understand the level 10 doing 90% of the damage in an instance. I am on a character to learn to play the rotation. Maybe the math is broken. NO the math is broken and it’s old now. Also what is the goal? Are we just max leveling the player base without teaching them the rotations? Because poor training lead to poor players. Creating other issues down the road. This is corporate knowledge that Blizz should know.
- The incentive to play tank and healer is minimal, and annoying. Can we reward tanks and healers to queue? You have a system that promotes this. But… you don’t activate the rewards often enough… actually you promote DPS to queue… to keep the instance queues long? (Playing tank is meh, at the moment. This expansion is very “samey” as every other expansion.)
- Kicking a player is too easy and there is no penalty for abusing the kicking system. You literally can “kick a player for any reason”, per a Blizzard GM… resulting in them having a 30 minute lockout. Why is there a penalty? You literally have to wait again to accept a queue. It’s more like an hour lockout.
- If you queue into a partially complete LFR, then requeue to finish the 1st bosses you missed, the above said penalty is applied to your character if you leave. Forcing you to make the decision to either kill bosses that you already did or be locked out of the queueing system for 30 min. (30 min lockout+wait time to get into a new raid)
- Trying to talk with Blizzard is annoyingly tedious… forcing all the discussions on these forums. Which I avoid like the plague, due to poor moderation.
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it’s because tanks took groups hostage when there wasn’t a penalty. We forced blizzard to add this.
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I doubt that. Do you have any documentation on that? Or just assuming this is the reason. Did Blizzard announce this, because tanks are taking groups hostage we are implementing a new process of lockouts? I think more likely certain players were queueing with a tank to avoid the wait for a LFR. Then the tank would AFK. That seems to be an issue that has a better solution that what is in place.
I feel penalizing players that are not at fault is a bad thing, in any game. Yes this happens, it has happened to me, and I have witnessed this behavior in LFR multiple times. Let’s change that,
Also the audacity for a GM to inform me that I can be penalized at any time for any reason because of mob mentality even when there is no fault on my part, is insane. Can you imagine playing Mario back in the day and just be killed at any time without your control, forcing you to redo a level… because “it happens”. It is a serious flaw that will eat at the player base.
Also this is that tedious annoying process that I hate on these forums. The one guy saying one line then dipping out without anyyyyyyyyyyy input to the conversation at all. Can we change that too?
i was there when it happened. I am first-hand source.
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Doubt it all you want, but it’s 100% true.
I’m another person who was there in the before time, the long, long ago. Yes, Blizzard announced it when they made the change.
It shouldn’t be all that hard to imagine. Tank or healer queues for random dungeon to get reward. They’re placed in a dungeon they don’t want to do. Leave and get 30 minute debuff? Or get group to kick you and queue immediately with no penalty? Why is this so hard to imagine?
Why is this either audacious or insane? The only criteria for being kicked from a group is a majority of the group not wanting to play with you anymore. You don’t have to be “at fault” and there doesn’t need to be a reason. It is enough that a majority of the group doesn’t want you there.
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For most classes and spell you can figure out a general rotation by just read your talents and spells. It’s not hard to know that you hit the spell that buffs your damage before you hit your big damage spell with a long cooldown right?
I don’t want incentivized players to game with. I want players who are having fun. Let people who enjoy dps play dps characters and people who enjoy tanking and healing do those roles as well. There is no need to give out incentives.
Can confirm this as well, cause I was one of the tanks that took people hostage when I got “The Occulus” back in Wrath, and Deadmines Heroic in Cata. We abused the system and Blizzard came in cause the penalty before was just for leaving getting kicked did nothing. When Firelands Patch hit they added in the Kick penalty as well for 15 mins. It went for so long until TWW and they upped it to 30 mins cause people were abusing the first boss kill for Sac Brood trinket and the penalty was gone after 1 boss kill. Now its 30 min Debuff or Whole dungeon completion cause of these groups. I was not part of the Sac Brood, but I proved the first time that it could be abused to get out of dungeons I didn’t like.
Also there is a penalty for those kicking. After a couple kicks, you get a big cooldown on your ability to vote to kick starter, which means you trolling could get you stuck with a troll. They should be used sparingly.
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Then enforce the penalty in mythic dungeons then. If it works so well. If it’s good for the game, let it be in all aspects of the game. Otherwise the reasoning crumbles, if it’s good in one area why not implement it in all equivalent aspects? I’ll take a L in LFR if I get a W in Mythic.
The reasoning is consistent across all modes of play. If Blizzard randomly groups you then there’s a punishment for leaving. If the player takes responsibility of forming the groups then there isn’t.
If you leave/get kicked early you get a debuff. That would be the general logic.
I honestly think the debuff should be 1 hour if you leave a M+ run.
Is there a reason not to add this to Mythic +?
Or add a vote for continuation/or disband. Then the debuff would not apply if the group agrees the key is too difficult to complete/time.
That is the logic for opting into the automated group finder. Blizzard puts the groups together, and because none of the players are responsible for who they’re grouped with, Blizzard applies a penalty for leaving groups because that hurts the system.
M+ is not automated. Every group leader has 100% control over who they invite. There is no need to punish someone for leaving a group they don’t want to be in when all parties consented to forming the group in the first place.
If you goal is completion regardless of timer, then invite people who also share that goal. Someone’s IO score gives zero information about whether they will stay or go if something goes wrong. So if that’s your priority, then using IO score is not a very good way to vet the people you invite.
There’s a lot of reasons to not add it and not being held hostage in a bad group is one of them. The debuff only happens in content where Blizzard takes away the player’s autonomy to form the group.
You don’t opt into the LFR. It’s the general way of doing “beginning” instances and raids. It is a blizzard system that is used by all players for groups. Just like you don’t opt in to Mythic finder, it is a Blizzard system that is used by players. One has a penalty, the other does not, both made by Blizzard that is used by the player base.
I do understand persons wanting to leave the group on the 1st hiccup leaving, with an hour penalty of course. Still a viable option. Just like me getting kicked because a player overpulled the dungeon and blamed me, or a group in LFR lagging the whole raid with UI spam, again blaming random players and laughing when they got kicked. Or when a player was kicked because they were running back and got lost, or when a tank asked a question and got kicked, or…
Is the ability to leave a mythic plus dungeon early such a big deal? I don’t believe I have done this ever. I think instead of removing the penalty from LRF adding it to Mythic would be a better idea.
I do like the fight here to make sure we can leave Mythic runs and waste 4 other players time and resources. Mind you the waste of gold from players leaving mythic is probably a massive number. Flasks, food, weapon buff, pots.
Can we agree players leaving mythic dungeons is an issue and negatively impacts the gameplay of others OFTEN?
Now if you don’t use the Blizzard system and form a group truly alone, that’s an option. Then no penalty. Since you all have been here since day one… like me… you remember this option. It works fine. There is a current game that uses this method and is successful.
What? You don’t select the wing you’d like to do and click a button to join the queue? You can’t join LFR without clicking the button. That is opting in. Nobody is required to do LFR. They can start on normal and make or join a group that is player created and without the rules of the automated system.
Except that is something that is opted in also. There are plenty of people who do M+ without ever using the group finding tool.
One is automated, and the groups are created by the system with no agency by the players involved. The other is not automated, and the groups are formed entirely under the players’ control. How are you not understanding the difference?
Not in and of itself, no. The big deal is the game company requiring players to play with other players or face a punishment. It’s one thing when everyone signs into the automated system understanding that is a possibility, and the punishment only prevents people from using the automated group finder. It’s another thing entirely when players lose their agency to quit player formed groups that they don’t want to be in anymore.
No, I agree with no part of that.
If you are upset by someone leaving your group then you made the group poorly. There has never once, in the entire history of M+, been an instance of someone quitting a group who wasn’t personally invited to that group by the group leader. Those time and resources wasted were wasted by the group leader.
I said it before and you either didn’t notice or didn’t think it important enough to comment on, so here it is again. If completing a dungeon regardless of the timer is your priority, then you need to invite people who share that priority. If you invite someone who only wants to finish in time, then you chose the wrong person. Looking at IO score won’t tell you anything about whether or not they will quit or finish, so if you’re just using IO score to vet your groups, you’re doing it wrong for your needs.
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You do by “queueing” into it.
| Penalty | No Penalty |
|---|---|
| LFD Normal Dungeon | Manual Normal Dungeon |
| LFD Heroic Dungeon | Manual Heroic Dungeon |
| LFR | Manual M0 |
| BG | Manual M+ |
| SS | Manual Normal Raid |
| Manual Heroic Raid | |
| Manual Mythic Raid |
Get the picture? There’s a clear distinction between what gets punished and what doesn’t.
The only bribe you could do to get me to do tw would be myth gear from the bonus chest. Champion or heroic gear means nothing to me. And the extra gold or badges isn’t even worth a thought when m+ is expensive
One last thing before I leave this conversation. Notice my posts. This is literally my first post in yearsssssss. Meaning this is an issue that weighs on my mind and I have clearly thought it through. But, I do appreciate the machine gunner posters replying, telling me my way of thinking is 100% wrong and that the status quo is “tah way”.
Others feel the way I do. Something to think about. Most do not have the patience that I do.
So ya, I dread doing this.
Sometimes the best reply is to walk away… because others thrive on attention.