Dumb Thoughts: Worshipping Loa and Wild Gods, and NOT being a Troll, Tauren or Kaldorei?

Something that occurs to me, is that we’ve had years of exposure to the various racial faiths.

Orcs actually relearned Shamanism from the Tauren, and the Darkspear revived their own Shamanistic faith (more Animist, but that’s a different topic) with Tauren guidance.

Tauren have both been the original Druids, and re-learned that path under the guidance of Cenarius and the Kaldorei Druids.

Gnomes learned to harness the power of the Light and the Void from Human, Dwarven and Draenei Priests.

We’re soon to get Shamans for all races, Paladins for all races, and Druids for all races.

How deep is this spiritual cross-contamination going to go? Most Druids require the interference of Wild Gods or similar entities to achieve their Shape-changing abilities, while their spellcasting is more ‘normally’ accessible, ala the Gilnean hedge-witches prior to becoming Worgen, and the crude druidism of the Gnolls of Kalimdor, evidenced by some of their spellcasters using Druidic spells to attack others.

The Light answers to anyone whose will is strong enough. The Void is forever seeking minds strong enough to bear the burden of its infinitely branching futures. But Druidism and Shamanism are a lot more murky in the how’s and why’s. Shamanism, you are either born with the gift, or the Elements/Ancestor Spirits/Loa alter something within you to allow you to access Spirit Energy and through that, you either ask (or bargain with) the Elements for power, or the Ancestor Spirits/Loa intercede on your behalf and get you the necessary mojo to cast the spells.

Druidism appears to draw directly from the natural plants and animals around you, as well as the Emerald Dream in some way we’re never exactly going to have explained to us, but the Shape-Changing appears to derive solely from the Wild Gods and the Loa. You can’t turn into a cat unless you’re somehow connected to the Totem of the Druids of the Claw, or a Loa whose nature is that of a large cat agrees to lend you the power of that form (although in the case of Gonk, he intercedes on behalf of his Druids to allow them to draw from multiple Loa).

And something we’ve found is that our Gods … are kind of lacking. The Light might be benevolent, but it may yet be a tyrant regardless. The Void is certainly not nice, kind or gentle, but it may have a point. The Titans are just straight up monsters who have simply had bigger fish to fry and we were amendable pawns to their short-term goals, and the Fel?

Yeah, no, that is never going to be on anybody’s side.

By Wild Gods? Loa? They’re real, they’re close enough to touch, they preach lessons that Mortals can more easily connect with and ideology that appeals to the many and varied races that currently inhabit Azeroth.

The Horde has long had connections here, first through the Tauren, then the Darkspear, then the Zandalari Empire, and the Horde has both fought for and against Loa of all kinds, from small, humble Loa who are worshipped by families and clans, to the mighty King of the Loa himself before his tragic death at the hand of Zul’s cultists.

The Alliance is more complicated in this regard, with the Kaldorei being intimately familiar with the Wild Gods, but their standoffish attitude and the secluded nature of the Cenarion Circle prevented wide-spread introduction, along with the inherent racism and specism that gave the Scarlet Crusade such a strong footing amongst the Humans for so long. With the arrival of the Worgen, knowledge that there were powerful entities beholden to neither the Light, which had failed Men, Elves and Dwarves countless times, nor the Void, a dark and foul thing anti-ethical to the Virtues of the Light, at least to the common folk of the realms. With the return of the Kul’tirans and the end of the cultural animosity between the Kul’tirans and the ‘Mainlanders’, that’s a huge shift in how the Alliance’s common people may come to see such beings.

Wrote this on the spur of the moment.


Imagine a sailor, overhearing one of these Zandalari boasting of great hauls of fish because she offers prayers and tithe to some Shark God, and despairing of the depleted stocks of fish he is catching, decides to make a crude shark idol and awkwardly makes an offering of their blood and a fish to it, stutters and asks for enough fish to keep their family from starving, and casts the nets, binding their cut thumb and feeling both nervous and foolish … until he starts to reel in his net and grunts in surprise, straining as the nets come up slowly.

Its not a massive haul, but there’s several big fish there that will sell for a princely sum, and enough of the more common fish that his family can salt and smoke them and have enough food for a month!

And it is only when he’s reaching into the water to reach for the next handful of net that he spots the eye, huge, black, cold and frighteningly intelligent, belonging to a shark of monstrous size, big enough to swallow his little ship whole, and most distressing, not moving like a shark should.

It is watching him. And in that moment of blind fear, as his mind begs for something, anything to spare him, and the certain knowledge that he is dead and there’s nothing he can do, a cold voice, as crushing and pitiless as the depths of the ocean itself, fills his mind.

You called, little land-walker, and Gral has answered. Honor the sea, grant me offerings of fealty and loyalty, take only what you need, and her bounty shall ever be yours

And with that, the great Shark God, this ‘Gral’, smoothly dives back beneath the waters, that massive body disappearing with barely a ripple, as the fisherman gapes, then shivering from fear and adrenaline, pulls all of his nets in and sails back home.

His partner and children don’t understand his stammering, merely delighted to have such a bountiful haul. The merchants don’t care for his ‘wild stories’, only that the catch is fresh, healthy and can be sold for a premium.

And as the fisherman works up the courage to go back out the next day for his job, he looks at the idol, swallows, and raises his worn old whittling knife to his thumb again, and this time his prayer for bounty and protection has a name attached to it.

His catch will never be as bountiful as the first one, but his family never goes hungry, even if they do complain about their meals always being fish. But as the months roll by, his boat is repaired and refitted to be more stable, and modestly engraved with a shark’s head at the prow. Despite the urging of his friends and fellow fishermen, the fisherman never joins them when all the smaller boats gather to cast longer nets between them to try and catch bigger hauls, he fishes alone and urges them to not take so much.

As the man’s children grow older, he takes them aside and tells them of the ‘King of the Sharks’, and how they should never take more than they need, else their nets will be empty and their lives may be in danger. Over ale and counter meals at the tavern, his closest friends and confidants are introduced to his strange rituals, and ideas, and while many snort and laugh or call him mad, a few look at him, nod their heads and listen.

The next week, more shark idols are whittled in the quiet hours of the nights. Drops of blood are dropped on the idols, and whispered prayers for guidance, protection and bounty are given.

Some fishermen come back to shore early, white-faced and refusing to speak, moving inland and refusing to ever return to the ocean. Others, equally grim and startled, come back with nets full of a modest bounty of fish, and the original fisherman gives them an understanding look, and takes them to the tavern to buy them a drink to steady their nerves … and re-bandage their hands where a shaky cut of the knife may have cut too deep.

Months later, the fisherman’s daughter greets him at the docks, a strange look in her eyes. As he kneels down to ask her what is wrong, she reaches for his hand, for the thumb that is raw and infected from daily cuts and squeezes for blood, and wraps her small hands around it.

Pale green-blue light, barely visible in the afternoon sun, flows weakly in the spaces between her fingers, and the fisherman blinks, looking down to see his thumb healed and no longer swollen with infection, and then looks at his little girl, who is beaming up at him with a gap-toothed smile of innocent joy.

“Gral said you don’t have to do that every time.”

As he opens his mouth to ask questions, to cry out in alarm, there is a splash behind him, and holding his daughter to him, imagining he’s unwittingly led his friends and family to the worship of some devil of the sea, that he’s damned them all in his drive to keep his family fed and housed, the fisherman turns around … to see a strange staff, made of weathered, salt-encrusted driftwood, wrapped in kelp and festooned with barnacles and shark’s teeth, clattering onto the small, humble dock.

A gift, for your daughter. She has strong ties to the ocean. Honor her as you honor the sea, and your people will never need to fear hunger again.

Swallowing, the fisherman staggers over and gingerly picks up the staff, finding it curiously warm and heavy in his hands despite the cold sea-water and kelp under his hands, and lets his daughter hold it, telling himself he does not see the glowing bioluminescence in the kelp and barnacles, or at least not until he’s had a fortifying beer or seven at the tavern, and carries his daughter inside with her new prize, and a nervous feeling of hope in his heart.


Would the appeal of a God that actually answers you, that exists in the same world as you, that can commiserate with you, understand your troubles and your woes and offer you guidance that makes sense rather than maddenning images and dreams or impossible standards to uphold? Or would the compulsion to remain with the herd, the traditional ways and values of their people and the risk of social ostracism or worse keep the worship or approachment of such beings limited to the bizarre creatures we call Adventurers and Champions, rather than the common folk of the Horde and Alliance?

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This is less the case as of BfA and gives the full power of shape changing to him to bestow onto his followers that champion him. Gonk to druids before this wasn’t fleshed out in why he didn’t care much for other Loa, and they turned this around and into him caring quite a bit about unity among Loa, just not for how they draw lines in the sand with their followers. Which is primarily a Loa’s demand to be the only one worshipped.

I mean this in no ill way, but your example story made me snort a little with how human of a reaction it is to these deities. Blood in the water is definitely a way to get a shark loa’s attention. But had the human learned a little more of Gral, he would have learned that Gral has a deep hunger for knowledge. Enough to make information trading a valid tender in exchange for boons. It’s a nice little misconception that gives room for those more learned and living in reverence to the Loa to impart their knowledge on others, and it’s often how things are in real life.

When it comes to Loa worship in rp, Kholwa is happily willing to provide and teach anyone that wishes to worship and seek boons. To her, the Loa deserve more followers, and need them to grow their power and ensure the balance of nature is upheld. The wild gods of the night elves have no such worry, since most of their power derives from titan intervention. Not that she knows that, but she’s long felt there’s a difference between the two pantheons.

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Oh I know, but my thought was, the fisherman’s too old and set in his ways to feed Gral the knowledge and information he craves, but his children? Young, bright minds eager to devour knowledge and hunger for more? Minds free to ask questions and search for answers in places Gral cannot reach due to his inability to go inland?

Immortal or long lived beings should be willing to make plans that can span generations of those with shorter lives. Prosperous families can risk sending children off for higher educations and adopt more noble and benevolent stances, because they aren’t struggling every day to feed and shelter themselves, thus meaning they’re more likely to listen to Gral, and follow his lead, especially if he’s their patron and the source of their prosperity itself.

This. This this this.

Did the Wild Gods refuse to come to the aid of the Kaldorei because they didn’t need them, or because Elune warned them off?

All Loa and Wild Gods are born from the efforts of the Titan Keeper Freyr, but we saw in Ardenweald that not all Wild Gods are born of Titanic reshaping. I tilted my head at that at first, oh shock, Blizzard forgot their own lore again, but now that we know the Chronicles are half-truths couched to allow Odyn to save himself and paint all the cataclysmic failures and betrayals he’s responsible for as somebody else’s bag to carry, it makes me wonder.

Freyr is said to have elevated particularly powerful and intelligent creatures into Wild Gods, yet we’ve seen repeated examples of Wild Gods who had nothing to do with the Titan Keeper Freyr running around, and there is zero interaction between the Wild Gods and the Loa that we can see in-game. We’ve also seen repeated examples that the ability to become a Wild God is not tied to Titanic intervention. You can either kill and consume, or trap and drain, a Wild God or a Loa to gain access to their power and either replace them or become so powerful nothing mortal can touch you, or you can be lifted up or fused to their essence, either replacing them or becoming a ‘ward’ under them until you become a Loa in your own right, ala Vol’jin and Bwonsamdi, respectively.

A very dark thought, but the Wild Gods of the Kaldorei might very well be weighing their options with the Kaldorei, seeing them as allies whose ability to protect the domains of each of the Wild Gods is either waning or non-existent. They might like them, they might consider the Kaldorei friends, but the Wild Gods might be painfully aware they’re outnumbered by the Loa, and even with Ardenweald running smoothly again, there’s no guarantee that a wild God who is slain might not return one day to find their domain overtaken by a Loa or ascendant Loa and be caught fighting to be relevant to the cycle of Life and Death against this ‘new-blood’ on the scene.

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This goes even further than what you’ve posited below. Consider this, the celestials and wild gods uplifted by Keeper Freya are sworn to a duty. They’re bound by Order. I suspect this is what causes the likes of Goldrin, Tortolla, and other wild gods to not interfere beyond the likes of events such as the legion’s return, and the molten front.

But the Loa? Rezan, Gonk, and Pa’ku march alongside the Zandalari’s Sovreign ruler, they gathered to defend against Zul’s forces and Mythrax. And I’ve a feeling that’s not the only time they’ve done so. The Loa can and will intervene where it is in their interest to do so, whether for self serving reasons, the protection of their home, or to right an imbalance. Their much more “humanized” alongside their godly feats, so to speak.

I think as far as usurping domains, regarding the wild gods directly related to Freya probably never have to worry about this if you assume their ties are to a Titan’s design. Only other Loa would have worry of usurped domains, which is why there are Loa aplenty that aren’t known the way that the ones that make up the trolls’ pantheons are. But that’s also assuming they couldn’t simply share domains. We’ve been left to speculate most of the canon Loa’s domains, after all, and…

Well, dipping into real life and where the term Loa comes from, I preface this with saying that I am neither versed nor a practioner of Vodou in any of it’s forms. But it takes little searching to find that Damballa has multiple spirits that represent differing ideals, and that Damballa is not the only Lwa like this. I don’t know if vying for power and domains among themselves is quite a concept in that religion as it is in others, but I would not be surprised if there was more than a few overlaps among the Lwa.

Of course, I sincerely apologize to anyone that does happen to see this and notes that I am wrong.

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Racial exclusive worship has always bothered me in this story. Sure, Different cultures will have different customs in how they practice their religion but there does not seem to be much wiggle room for unifying theology.

This character for example worships the Wild God Lord Renard however all Pandaren in lore follow the Celestials…even though the player character is not even from Pandaria.

To make matters worse, apparently Celestials/Loa are not even the same thing (which i thought they were) further leaving no room for religous unification between races. My Kul’Tiran character worships the Tidemother which has never even been shown in game and may or may not just be a Naga…

When you look at the bigger picture in this story, niche events that shaped certain races over the course of history from certain beings/forces are the only reason they are worshiped. Theres no one thing everyone can come together on because honestly theres hardly anything we discovered thats really done much for us as a whole.
I hope this changes.

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I mean, to me, the abject failure of many religions and/or religious entities should probably spur people to look for something else, especially since that’s basically how the Twilight Hammer Cult grew so massive it could simultaneously tank both the Alliance and Horde in a three-way fight to the finish in Cataclysm.

The Light’s warm and uplifting … but keeps failing. Maybe I’ll see what these Shamans are talking about and shoot lightning out my eyeballs.

These Spirits are fractious and divided and keep getting taken over by tentacle monsters, maybe these Giant Spirit Beasts might have what I’m looking for.

Wow, some of them are great but they keep getting eaten by their followers and when I need them, half the time they don’t even pick up the phone, let alone show up. Huh, I wonder if those tentacle monsters are onto something.

I can taste sound. There is no therapy that can handle what I’ve seen, done and had done to me. Maybe the Titans really are the answer.

Eye-twitching, shuddering mess of a person “NEXT! Preferably with less galaxy-spanning authoritarianism please!”

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Haha This is actually a perfect explanation of what a character would go through looking to branch out and learn about Azeroths (kind of horrible) cosmology.

In the end, no race’s spiritual beliefs matter as we are all judged after death by the arbiter Pelagos.

This world is a prison. She was going to set us all free, but decided not to serve.

It’s a bit of fridge horror to me every time I remember that when someone dies, they get judged by that whinging loser.

To be fair, the Old Arbiter merely judging you on your value to the Eternal Cycle and your belief system didn’t matter.

The New Arbiter will send you where you want to go, so long as you upheld the belief system honestly, otherwise you go where you deserve to go.

The result of Shadowlands was literally that only Trolls, Tauren and Night Elves see any form of afterlife they’d believe in, and that everyone else is screwed.

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Alright, fair, fair.

But Pelagos is still a whinging loser.

He’s literally Super Undead Anduin.

And I like Anduin. But Pelagos just kind of … we threw the sweetest potato in the afterlife into the Big Chair, hoped the most dysfunctional Pantheon ever seen will continue to work together and obey their new Arbiter, and not just immediately go back to the status quo, let alone those absolutely head-up-their-ethereal-backsides Drone-Spirits ignoring his commands because it is not ‘The Path’ that they follow without question and refuse to deviate from until everyone is on the verge of actually, physically unravelling under their non-existent feet, and then left with no way to canonically return, and no way to ensure that Pelagos would stay the course.

DID WE LEARN NOTHING FROM HIGH COMRADE MOMMY DREADLORD UBERTYRANT YREL’S DESCENT INTO FASCISM?

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AFAWK, the other ‘Afterlives’ are still out there, just the four we were introduced to were central to the continuous operation of the Shadowlands, and all afterlives, within the cosmic framework of the setting. Now that the Maw isn’t just sucking down every soul in creation like that a corpulent hulk at a dessert buffet, we are seeing the flow of Souls, and Anima, flowing back out to many other points in the ‘space’ around Oribos, and thus its implied these other Afterlives are being restored, albeit we have no idea what state they were left in due to the drought, and if they simply entered stasis or were reduced to a darwinian nightmare of everything eating each other trying to get enough anima to sustain themselves.

We know that the four main Afterlives of the Shadowlands still functioned relatively well, but were still heading to a critical state when we arrived, and that was because they were both A) functioning without input from Oribos, leading to a worsening of the drought and expending their anima reserves recklessly and B) giving their Anima to agents of the Maw as part of their allegiance to the Jailer and their attempt to subvert the role of the Shadowlands.