Duelist to elite is too big of a jump

PVP Arenas
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I’m finding very little motivation to queue up after hitting 2100 on some of my tunes. I’ll admit, i’m not the greatest player of course, but the jump from 2100 to 2400 just seems almost impossible. In 2’s it requires you to be one of the top 150 players in the country. In 3’s you’re going to be playing against mostly muti-time gladiators, and likely against teams with years of comm experience. In RSS you have to be anywhere from top 200 of your spec to as much as top 30 of your spec to reach 2400. I think situations like these also have a lot to do with why participation dwindles and no one tends to talk about it.

And with participation down, it only makes the grind seem more daunting. There really needs to be an overhaul of the pvp reward system and the first step is to make it percentage-based, imo. Static ratings have NEVER made any sense. Depending on participation, where you are in the season, inflation or lack thereof, and bracket, 2400 could mean top 20 players in the country, or top 10% (looking at you slands S2, and DF S1 soloshuffle)…yet, the reward is the same. That’s just asinine.

In addition, you have my above complaint which is that sometimes the breakpoint between two particular rewards can be so vast, that you go must go from top 2000 players…to top 150 for the next reward (going from duelist to elite in 2v2 currently).

Lastly, 2’s like RSS, needs it’s own high end reward for those who enjoy that content at it’s highest level (no it doesn’t need to be gladiator or rank 1 title, but something equivalent to legend and verdant legend) would be great.

I suggest something like the below:

top 60% Initiate
top 50% Combatant I
top 45% Combatant II
top 35% Challenger I
top 30% Challenger II
top 20% Rival I
top 10% Rival II
top 5% Duelist
top 3% Elite

End of season reward:

top 1% Gladiator + mount (only 3v3)
top .25% Rank 1 + mount (only 3v3)

Added for 2v2:

top 1% title + reward (different from 3v3 title/reward)
Top .25% title + rewards (different from 3v3 title/reward)

Lastly, I think overall there should just be more cosmetic and other rewards all throughout the ladder (in addition to things like wep enchant, elite set, elite weps, tabard etc). There should also be rewards for queueing 100, 200, 300 etc games…encouraging participation (these should probably change every season. Anyways, just some of my thoughts/concerns.

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It only makes sense that you’d find gladiators around gladiator cutoff, no?

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So just move to a different country. I mean Americas and Oceania is obviously just the USA? Fr though i agree. The gap is big and a league based system would be better.

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Well, yes. I suppose my point is currently the gaps are too big. For now, the gap is most painful between 2100-2400, as inflation hasn’t (yet) pushed rank 1 too far from 2400/gladiator. In seasons with high inflation though (SL S2, DF S1 RSS), the gap was most painful between 2400/gladiator and rank 1. If you remember, the cutoffs for rank 1 were like 3100+. At that time, I remember seeing a lot of threads of people saying there was no incentive to queue after hitting 2400/glad.

Both situations are a problem, imo. Anything that discourages one from continuing to push, or encourages them to sit, is toxic to the health of the overall ladder. As we all know, once there is a “perception” that people aren’t playing, it tends to become a self-fulfilling prophecy making everything worse.

Pusing to the next reward level should require improvement, work, and should feel difficult, but not impossible…and that’s where we’re currently at and I don’t think anyone is talking about that. These aren’t the players streaming or the pro gamers, but they are a huge chunk of the ladder. I think these players are just outright quitting.

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The spread right now doesn’t seem unreasonable, especially with whatever inflation is to come. Everybody AFKing 3 months to queue is a bit of a concern, though, yeah.

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Used to be 2250~ duelist → 2700 for glad. The “jump” has been reduced significantly.

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Stop crying and queue up.

All you have to do is do damage and don’t die and u win every game.

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If you’re referring to when title’s were percentage based, then that must have just been 1 particular season. Ratings required for duelist/glad during that time were different every season precisely because they were percentage based. In this case that must have been the jump from top 3% to top .5% in one particular season.

And at that high level, I do think that’s too big a jump. Things become exponentially more difficult as you climb to the top. A 100 rating improvement from 2500-2600 for example is generally a whole lot more difficult than a jump from 1400-1500. This is why I recommend something like top 5%, then top 3%, then top 1% then top .25%. Duelist → Elite → Gladiator → Rank 1.

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I’m at around 2300 MMR and it’s definitely really hard this season. I assume due to deflation and such. It’ll probably get better as the season goes on when people start playing to get their rewards before the season ends.

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not only that there some class that are currently broken like rdruid and DH for example so when you cross them you wish your healer is a god because they are really hard to counter

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Playing as enh, everything seems overpowered. But you’re 100% right. If someone is going for rewards, there’s no reason to not make a DH or Rdruid.

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And a lot of people could reach 3,000 CR. Static points in time are meaningless when it’s all relative. I have old CRs from well over a decade ago I’ll never hit because it’s not the same game.

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Nah, its numerous seasons. Those seasons were also similar to the level of inflation we see now. Warmongering WoD S3 and Fierce as Kenny linked are both examples.

I understand what you’re trying to say, but the comparison point of 25-26 vs 14-15 is a pretty poor way to execute the talking point. It is not too big of a jump, it was what made gladiator actually feel like an achievement, compared to now where its a “que up and eventually you get it”.

Additionally, you only need to really crack 2.4k once, then its technically 2375+ grants a win towards the gladiator title.

To be clear, I do respect the idea you have around this. I want percentage based rewards back as well, but I don’t think that making Elite top 3% does anything to make the game more enjoyable. It just gives players a title and an ego that isn’t deserved or earned.

They can do that now and will likely do so by the end of the season. We currently have people at the top of the ladder @ 2950. It hasn’t even hit a 2 week notice point which will of course drag that number upwards.

SLS2 + S1 Shuffle has given players an extremely overinflated (lol) view of their own ability in the game, and it’s something that Blizzard will never be able to walk back from now.

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rank one cutoff right now is farther from gladiator than duelist is tho

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yea 2s I’m top 200 NA disc priest atm, I lost a bunch to some really hard teams. outlaw or war rsham/rdruid is really hard rn. 2100 and above in 2s is super, super sweaty right now. if you’re not fighting mains, you’re fighting alts of mains.

anyways, yea so I made a thread like this a few weeks ago and it got instantly mass reported & blizz confirmed deleting it but I guess it was not because the content but someone was trying to do something illegal or suggesting it? someone mentioned it to me in another thread a few days after so I had no idea.

tl;dr - I agree, however, not percentage. it simply needs to be a participation by games won. the nucleus of this concern is you don’t have the prestige rewards you feel you should have or can’t get because of X. how do you solve that mathematically? you don’t. it’s not a problem. the actual problem is PvP has very, very low turnout right now. it’s essentially the same people playing against the same people (paraphrased).

WoW started as a PvE game, is a PvE game, and is balanced as a PvE game. PvE has generated it’s bottom line & it continues to do that. PvP has always been an afterthought so it’s no mistake Blizzard has to (and is) have a growth mindset for this landscape.

I’ve typed a ton of suggestions so I don’t really feel like retyping it but my suggestion was simply set all prestige rewards to games won. why? everyone can win a game. everyone cannot, has not, or will not get 2400.

that’s it, that’s the post!

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Yap

Blizzard arbitrarily inflates rating as the season goes on so CR is easier to obtain, but that just leads to certain groups of people refraining from Qing until inflation is super big late season.

But I think your suggestion for ranks is too exclusive.

Initiate should be like top 90% with either X number of matches played or over Y rating (like 1000 or 1500.) Ranks could progress ~ 5-10% after.

There has to be a reward system where most rewards are obtainable by most players. Otherwise only above average players will ever try rated PvP, and the ladder will shrink in participation.

And yes, PvP needs more rewards in general. Boots and Bracers aren’t that exciting as a reward o_O

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I swear there’s so much they can do now that they’re adding 3d cosmetic cloak (sl covenant stuff) and bracers (the recent trading post watch mog)

there should be more fun cosmetics like those lower, then better looking tabards higher to keep people playing past glad

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Please stop trying to impersonate grandpop.

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Going to strongly disagree with you here. I think one of the biggest draws of arena and one of the reasons it ever became popular in the first place is the strong competitive aspect of it. Most people want to feel a sense of accomplishment, progression, and to be rewarded for their work and practice. Changing ALL rewards to simply a participation-based system would 100% kill arena, and pretty much all rated content.

As for how to solve the issue…there are ways. First would be to make all titles percentage-based, and earnable 3-4 weeks into the season. Second would be to add additional rewards and titles, so that there aren’t massive gaps between rewards that make the next reward so hard to attain, that it feels pointless to try. Third would be to add additional cosmetics/rewards for games played (but not in place of current ones), as just another added incentive for people to queue and play.

But anyways, you talk of this being a pve game. So then why don’t they just remove all the difficulty levels to mythic+ and raiding and make it one super easy difficulty level across the board, where as long as you grinded, you all got the same exact rewards? Because that would kill pve.

Honestly, I would love to hear you explain how you think making pvp rewards just a mindless grind would INCREASE player participation long term.

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