That’s a matter of opinion at that point And 1st off what we need more than anything else is more people to play the game however.
for a lot of Reasons Out of our control at this point I would make an argument that dual speck is almost needed because there’s less people more people are going to need to fill more rolls more frequently.
So I say no Is we very much need dual speck and the need is getting more and more I have not been in a pug raid That has had 25 people in it.
It’s generally 22 To Maybe 23 I hear it on podcasts I hear it when I go to other servers a lot of people game wide
Are having problems filling rosters You can’t tell me dull speck would not help with that.
At least to an extent And that’s before we talk about PVP So yeah dull speck is very much needed at this point.
I say no, we don’t need.
We need to focus on what we need: realm consolidation to reconnect the player base.
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We didn’t need same faction BG’s.
Those horde could have either dealt with queues or rerolled alliance, they were hardly unable to play.
Not to mention same faction BG’s are not optional unlike dual spec, if you don’t like dual spec you could simply not use it.
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By that logic though If people Is that don’t want it don’t have to buy it then what’s the problem with having it in.
Right I mean I mean if you’re not going to buy it anyway what’s the issue with having it in Because you’re right it’s a complete choice whether you’re going to buy it and use it.
That’s entirely up to you so by that logic there’s no problem with adding it in is there?
We did. If you say otherwise you’re a liar and a troll.
The alliance wouldn’t queue. Blizzard made a wise decision to make up the game for the horde players and also they decided to give charity to alliance cowards so they would start queuing (which miraculously happened after adding the chest).
You can just not queue at all, like you weren’t doing before.
If you add dual spec right now in the game, every player will need to have a immediate viable second spec, mandatory, just like LW was going to be mandatory to all players.
If you can’t see it, then you don’t play TBC at all.
It is not a choice once you add it to the game.
I guess grammar and bad quoting isn’t your only problem, but also logics.
Dual spec would’ve been nice if it was added from day one, and they kept Drums as they were on release.
But they added tinnitus, so adding dual spec right now would bring the very same “toxicity” (sigh) people argued would’ve happened with LW.
You can’t “opt out” from dual spec once they add it.
If you raid you’ll be asked to have dual spec and two specs ready for rading.
The illusion that some people share here that “oh you will have one for pvp and another for PvE” is a lie. That won’t happen at all.
If you are not ready to swap specs you’ll be benched and you’ll not be recruited. That’s the harsh reality people don’t realize (or at least, people who don’t play TBC at all).
LW was never going to be mandatory for all players. A few of the top hardcore guilds competing for speed runs might have required it but the vast majority of casual guilds never would have. Dual spec wouldn’t require every one to have two raid specs. It didn’t happen when it was released in wrath and it wouldn’t happen in BC. There might be a couple players with 2 raid specs but most would play with just 1. The main healers would heal throughout the raid but one dps might have a healer off spec for the occasional fight that needed an extra healer. The main tanks would tank throughout the raid though one dps might have a tanking off spec for the rare fight that needed an extra tank.
Horde queue times spiked because a large number of players decided to meta chase instead of staying on alliance. It’s that simply, alliance were queueing, and if you are trying to claim other wise you are lying.
You were given a QOL change nothing more, just like how the people who want dual spec want a QOL of life cange.
That said the single best reason I have seen on these forums against adding dual spec early is that “it is a wrath feature, wait till 3.1 man.” Blizz seems to be happy with the museum tour of BC. The problem I see with the museum experience is the population problems (decline) combined with very different player habits (raid logging vs back in the day when we just couldn’t stop playing, and when did people start paying a tank/healer fee?) have led to the game feeling like a less than popular museum. The point of that rambling sentence is the game feels very different now than it did 15 years ago and I think we the players are largely to blame.
Now I have a question that I am curious about, particularly for the OG no changes crowd. This is purely hypothetical because I don’t see it happening. Would you rather see dual spec added now, or wrath to launch early?
That is exactly the reason why they added tinnitus and added a nerfed version of drums, so you would have maximum of 5 LW in your raid, and that is what happens today.
If what you say is true, then there wouldn’t be any reason to change LW to what wasn’t in OG TBC, but here we’re talking about how LW got “nerfed” with the changes to drums, so I guess you’re wrong.
That’s the reason they gave when they made the change but they didn’t do it for “the players” They did it for the small group of hardcore players that would have required LW. The vast majority of casual guilds never would have required it. When people were asking for the drum nerf what was the most common solution offered in the threads by most people?
Join a casual guild, they won’t require it.
The vast majority of casual guilds didn’t require all raiders to have 2 raid specs in Wrath and they wouldn’t if it were added to BC
OK one my whole argument Is with dull speck if you don’t want to buy it you don’t have to This was a response to somebody else’s comment up above in case you hadn’t noticed.
2nd of Dual spec and leather working are not the same thing for one major reason Is drums provided Is a permanent bloodless that means every single member of your Raid literally has 5% more merely attack speed and casting speed.
As far as it would be a mandatory offspec only for the top 20 maybe 30% of guilds Is but your average Joe no an offspect is just going to be an offspect.
So no they’re not the same As drums Oh and for the record no I played tbc Is originally and now I’ve played the game since 2004.
Is so yeah Just because my grammar isn’t good doesn’t mean my points aren’t
There are currently 21,401 guilds with t5 progress shown on warcraft logs, 25% of guilds is 5350 guilds. With each guild having at least 25 players that means that based on your estimate 133,756 players would be required to have a mandatory off spec. I’m sorry you’re an “average joe” but you need to stop down playing how many players would be affected by this change.
You’re right, your bad Grammer has nothing to do with the fact that your points are bad. They are bad all on their own for reasons already given in the over 5k post dual spec thread you have been actively a part of.
You started another dual spec thread purely as spam.
OK let’s say your estimates right ? If all those people are really running as hardcore as you say.
It’s probably not even going to bother them I mean these are people that literally midmax and try to part to even cut off a slight 2nd.
On boss kills Somehow I really doubt that being told all the sun oh yeah we have to respect during trash is really going to bother them.
On top of that There’s a really good chance They’re already teleporting people out and summoning them back in the instance Is or having them summoned back to the entrance if they’re really that type of Guild.
So if anything This dull speck just made their life easier and In some ways If that’s the type of play style they want.
Open up new opportunities for Parsing You’re right I am an average Joe I’m not the type of person that wants to do speed runs I can’t stand parting to be honest.
I care if the boss dies And me and my guilties had fun That’s all and there’s nothing wrong with that.
As far as me Down playing how many people this is going to a The question still remains this it for the good or the bad?
Because here’s the thing I would make an argument It would save All those hardcore players to have to farm extra hours just to keep farming gold to respect.
And let the Because when you respect you have to count like OK not only do I have to farm 100 gold more otherwise I’ve just lost money on top of that I have to farm gold for whatever is I was going to Farm
so yeah On top of that I actually listen and watch to quite a lot of those podcasts and most of the time when hardcore players talk about duel speck.
It’s generally They would really like it in It’s so yeah
It will 100% bother people that now in order to compete you’ll have to be swapping specs over and over.
I’ve explained this before but porting players out and swapping their specs for trash/bosses is currently not worth it at all. Any advantages gained by swapping specs are lost by the loss of time. Maybe 1-2 players are porting out to respec, but nowhere near the 15+ that would be respeccing with dual spec.
Adding in dual spec just promotes more degenerate play in raids and cheapens the feeling of guild progression.
There’s nothing wrong with being a casual player but PLEASE stop acting like putting in a change that would likely affect over 100,000 players isn’t something to be worried about.
If there were 133,756 players upset that they are required to have a mandatory off spec it seems to me they could easily form new guilds that didn’t require a mandatory off spec. It’s not like it’s impossible to leave a guild if you don’t like what the GM requires.