On the topic of mythic+ yes 
Of course since I did qualify that I understand some people might also be more capable of more granular opinions(unlike you, you might want to look up what the word particular means)…
Although in the case of dual spec your reasons actually are the same as global #nochanges as they are not rooted in dual spec actually being a problem in some way. So for dual spec saying you are #nochanges is accurate in both the end result and the motivaton.
Red is mostly responsible for the one argument that you, apparently, have accepted in the past: that of its effect on raiding.
That wasn’t, and never will be a nochanges argument.
How can you say this while feigning to attempt a genuine approach to this conversation, given that?
Because a perfectly reasonably solution to his problem that would have worked for his stated problem and been acceptable was proposed at which point he then fell back on other reasons.
So because your proposed solution wasn’t good enough, you believe it’s fair to rewrite his argument to be whatever you deem it to be.
Sounds reasonable.
(It’s not)
In reality, this is more like what a crying child does when they don’t get their way…
It’s because he has no argument to counter it that he dismisses it as nochanger.
Using a similar analogy that was used before.
Person a
I dont want to eat my vegetables because I saw you put rat poison on it.
Person b
I don’t want to eat my vegetables because I don’t like how they taste
Ziryus: you just don’t want to eat your vegetables!
Well no because the solution in fact solves his problem, but then he fell back on #nochanges.
So that ends up being his real argument and his stated problems with raids was not really the issue he had.
You don’t decide that. Only he does.
You don’t decide what solves people’s problems, or objectively counters x or y argument.
You are not the sole decider of these things.
It’s essentially a massive imperviousness to nuance.
Your proposed solution fixed ONE of multiple problems.
Ziryus logic: I fixed your flat tire so you can drive your car.
Car owner: what about the faulty gas injector and broken break system?
Ziryus: nope, but that doesn’t matter, it’s fixed!
No it’s not, but then I’m under no more obligation to accept his reasoning than he is mine
Otherwise known as engaging in bad faith.
Wait.
You have reasoning?
That would require logic, and since your dismissing everything as nochanges you clearly aren’t using logic.
No bad faith is stating a problem, then when a reasonable solution is proposed suddenly switching your problem instead of stating your real problem up front.
There can be more than 1 problem.
For example, I don’t think your proposed solution is even good enough to begin with.
You’re saying as long as they’re in a rest area, it solves his problem?
I disagree. I think someone needs to feel the financial sting of the gold cost for the intended design intention to get across.
There, I’ve disagreed with your proposed solution. Your idea is not an objective “cancel-out” of Reds concern about raids.
Correct and some those can be worked through, of course when you have an immovable position like just not wanting dual spec under any condition trying to pretend you have a legitimate issue that can be worked through is bad faith.
And I realize the reason both of you try to do that is because blizzard has explicitly rejected #nochanges for TBC Classic.
Tbc introduced a new game mode, arenas, that require MOST classes (not your unique feral spec) to swap their spec to perform well in pvp.
With the introduction of a wotlk dual spec system, the impact of spec choice would obviously be reduced, but to what extent? I am going to make the argument that spec choice would still be impactful even if dual spec was added.
I would still have to spend time making an important decision on what two specs I will use for dual spec.
For example:
A shaman would have to choose two specs. Are they going to go with their best pvp and pve specs, are they going to do two pve specs with an aoe vs single target focus, are they going to choose a healer and dps spec.
Even if you had dual spec, your spec choice would still be meaningful and would require a lot of thought and planning to make sure you aren’t paying to swap to a third option regularly.
The introduction of a retail style spec swapping system would completely eliminate the impact of spec choice. thats why I think a wotlk style dual spec in tbc would be a good change, preserving that spec choice is meaningful while encouraging players to try different parts of the game.
There was a LIST of problems from the very start.
You addresses ONE of them. Then dismissed everything else as nochanges when they were not nochanges.
A CD can be used to fix the min max raiding that dual spec could cause, but it doesn’t solve the gold issue, the damage to class/spec identity, the fact it goes directly against the design goal intentions of the origional game that tbcc is emulating, exc.
There was never just ONE issue with dual spec. You addressed one issue and simissed everything else by putting it under the (by your logic) catch all of nochanges.
Fair enough. Eventually the game gets tri-spec so clearly, there was more to lose when it comes to the impact of spec choice.
You’re arguing that the existence of arena in TBC basically makes spec switching a missing necessity, and you know what? Both me and red, and even Riger have relented on the idea of an “arena spec”, so take that for what you will.
And dual spec in its wotlk form is using a full body cast to fix a paper cut.
If the goal is to increase pvp participation then the proper solution is a bandaid designed to fix the paper cut, not a full body cast.
Simply put, if pvp participation needs help, making a instance pvp only second spec for players would be the solution, not full dual spec. If the problem is having to set up talent points and action bars, the solution is letting us save talent/bar templates (which add-ons already do, but i suppose making it baseline wont really change much) and still go back to the trainer and pay up to 50g each time.
But full wotlk dual spec is not the solution to any of these problems, and no, it doesn’t fix the tank/healer shortage either, we saw how that played out through retails life, they had to add a dozen other incentives and there is still a shortage.
Which is why I clearly stated:
Do you agree that a wotlk style dual spec system would still make spec choice meaningful? Given you only have two spec options and most classes have more than 2 viable specs, a meaningful choice must still be made.
I appreciate that you all acknowledge the problem but I’m not trying to say it’s a missing necessity. I pay my 200 + gold every week and swap back and forth as I please so it’s not necessary. I just think it would help improve pvp participation if people didn’t feel forced to pay 100 gold to queue arenas for a night and swap back to raid the next.