Dual Spec, why not?

[Fesz-cenarius]

If you are going to play Classic and be so obsessed with min/max’ing for every little thing, I hope you plan to leave plenty of time to farm the gold that you will need to constantly reallocate your talent points.

I plan on farming DM north with a hunter getting 150g per hour.

Then you will have no problem earning the gold you will need to spend to constantly reallocate those talent points.

[Asuramaru-tichondrius]

Was this in real vanilla where no one knew that fury was leagues better than arms for raiding or on a private server?

I have no doubt if you raided in real vanilla as an arms warrior, since no one knew up from down back then, and almost all raiding warriors were arms because fury was a “useless spec”.

If it was a private server however, i wonder how many wipes at 1 percent were because you wanted to perform sub optimally?

Who knows.

[Fateweaver-misha (Fateweaver)]

i wonder how many wipes at 1 percent were because you wanted to perform sub optimally?

Remember folks! If you don’t min/max you’re a terrible player and you’re detracting from everyone else’s success and you should be ashamed of yourself, etc, etc…

[Sabetha-turalyon (Sabetha)]

So your just going to ignore my point about Scatter Shot then?

Which I might add you can still pick up in 20/31/0, and do fine in PvP with that build.

There’s also a build that goes into Survival that doesn’t pick up Surefooted for when you’re hit capped. It’s got a little bit less DPS over 20/31/0, but offers better survivability. The DPS gap isn’t huge between the two(especially considering your pet isn’t a grand source of damage).

If you want to be a min/maxer then there’s going to be a cost to it. If you’re going to obsess over the mentality of “If it’s not 100% optimal it’s literal garbage” then you’d better get ready to farm gold.

Min/maxing has always had a cost to doing it to that extreme.

[Xecks-stormrage (Xecks)]

Was this in real vanilla where no one knew that fury was leagues better than arms for raiding or on a private server?

I have no doubt if you raided in real vanilla as an arms warrior, since no one knew up from down back then, and almost all raiding warriors were arms because fury was a “useless spec”.

If it was a private server however, i wonder how many wipes at 1 percent were because you wanted to perform sub optimally?

Who knows.

naw it was in real vanilla.

i did however know that fury was leagues better for dps and tanking.

i just pvped alot and wanted to do that as my non raid nights thing.

and no not many 1% wipes that i remember due to me offtanking alot.

i did switch to fury in mid aq40 cause the gear i had it was harder to gain rage while tanking so i needed the extra boost from fury .

seriously though man why be so mean and elitist? what has been done to you that you lost compassion for your fellow man?

[Loial-shadowsong (Loial)]

Every Warrior in Apes and Progress raided Arms early on in MC with the lack of gear available and no Lionheart Helms bro.

Also in D2 they patched in not only the Den of Evil giving you a respec once per difficulty, but also Tokens of Absolution from Charged Essences off of Act Bosses for a respec.

[Moonblade-hyjal (Moonblade)]

inb4 troll, But i really don’t see the damage having dual spec would cause, ive played on three different private servers, with four different raid geared 60’s, a rogue on nost, and a prot warrior, hunter, and priest on lights hope and in every single class i remember wishing almost every single day for a dual spec, something to prevent me from spending almost 100g everytime i log in. Its a ridiculously easy quality of life change that takes away NOTHING from gameplay other than being able to function in separate roles without having to pay an arm and a leg.

Also correct me if im wrong but im pretty sure at the wrath blizzcon they said that they had been wanting to implement dual spec into the game all the way back in vanilla in the first place but they didn’t have the tech.

It just seems ridiculous to me honestly.

i always find these topics amusing.

the poster always uses bfa as a comparison and then admits that they DISLIKE bfa (current retail) and then proceeds to explain how classic must be just like bfa (the game they dislike) in order to succeed/make people ‘happy’ etc etc.

example;

BfA suits no one’s desires and you know it!

but lets implement current/retail changes. like duel spec and everything else that YOU admitted that NO one likes.

the one thing i dislike about trolls- is that they suck at it. you can troll by using your brain/being logical/making SOME sense.

i HATE cheese…but lets ALL eat cheese- so we can be HAPPY! ‘cries while eating cheese’.

[Asuramaru-tichondrius]

Then you will have no problem earning the gold you will need to spend to constantly reallocate those talent points.

I’ll be selling tarnished elven rings to rogues and silly feral druids for 50g a piece i wont be hurting for gold.

Its just the simple fact that its annoying and anti fun.

Believe it or not i actually WANT classic wow to succeed because retail is hot garbage, and the possibility for them to see the massive success and create new content after naxxramas instead of TBC is what keeps me going.

I want what i believe is best for the game because i want it to have its best shot, and I personally think that antifun to that degree will turn off people and i don’t want that.

Remember folks! If you don’t min/max you’re a terrible player and you’re detracting from everyone else’s success and you should be ashamed of yourself, etc, etc…

If you don’t have the right spec and your raid/guild disbands because of a wipe that wouldn’t have happened if you WERE the right spec, meanwhile the rest of your raid is actually doing their jobs and you’re just wasting their time?

Yeah, Literally your fault.

Min/maxing has always had a cost to doing it to that extreme.

“Having the right talents” and “extreme min-maxing” are two seperate things.

Every Warrior in Apes and Progress raided Arms early on in MC with the lack of gear available and no Lionheart Helms bro.

Don’t talk to me about those literal scum in Apes and Progress.

Yes they leveled up and began raiding so fast that arms was technically better for them because of the monopoly on OEB and BRE while they funneled 1 handers to rogues. Yes i get that and that has like literally nothing to do with this topic.

and no Lionheart Helms bro.

Progress had the lionheart helm recipe by like week 2 dude where were you at?

Also in D2 they patched in not only the Den of Evil giving you a respec once per difficulty, but also Tokens of Absolution from Charged Essences off of Act Bosses for a respec.

Yeah thats why i said OLDSCHOOL Diablo 2, i know they added in talent changes much later.

but lets implement current/retail changes. like duel spec and everything else that YOU admitted that NO one likes.

Oh yeah bro i totally forgot that dual spec was introduced in BFA!!

Where was my head hahahaha!!

See for some stupid reason i was thinking that it was introduced in wrath of the lich king, that expansion that was the peak of wow’s success and popularity? The one that had 12 million subscribers?

But oh yeah, you’re right bro! It was bfa that introduced dual spec!

My bad bro!

[Fateweaver-misha (Fateweaver)]

Yeah, Literally your fault.

There you go again, not understanding the definition of literally and making assumptions.

You do you, though.

[Sabetha-turalyon (Sabetha)]

“Having the right talents” and “extreme min-maxing” are two seperate things.

And you’re calling virtually anything less than optimal absolute garbage.

Which is extreme min/maxing.

[Odinmar-eldrethalas (Odinmar)]

A huge gold sink to remove gold from the economy.

This is an important thing for Classic, and a difficult concept to teach people who haven’t been in a game where gold wasn’t raining from the sky for quite some time. The so-called “hybrid tax” is an important (if small) part of an overall server economy. The server economy is an important part of what distinguishes a MMORPG from a MORPG.

Start screwing with things that appear unimportant and they will cause some pretty big problems – problems that are so far disconnected from the source you’ll lose track of what went wrong.

The concept of vanilla is youre a small adventurer, looking out into this HUGE expansive world, where all your decisions are very important to your story and the feeling of immersion.

Yes. This. Making a spec change trivial really wrecks the idea that these points that you earn from leveling and you spend carefully are important decisions that define your character’s power and uniqueness (even if a cookie-cutter build). To wreck this aspect of an RPG to convenience a minority of raiders, raiders already being a minority of players, is not the best plan for making a RPG.

It’s fine if you’re making an e-sports or action game, sure. But please, please don’t make Classic into that sort of thing. A cheap-and-easy-and-painless dual spec is a step (perhaps minor, but still a step) in that direction.

[Asuramaru-tichondrius]

There you go again, not understanding the definition of literally and making assumptions.

You do you, though.

Explain how it isn’t literally your fault then

[Fateweaver-misha (Fateweaver)]

Explain how it isn’t literally your fault then

Go back to that post of yours and find the assumption.

[Dealloc-dethecus (Dealloc)]

It just seems ridiculous to me honestly.

Well that’s how vanilla was. And honestly, that’s all that matters.

Introducing dual spec compromises the vanilla experience. Period. That’s the end of it. There’s nothing else to consider. Any argument you make is irrelevant.

[Asuramaru-tichondrius]

Well that’s how vanilla was. And honestly, that’s all that matters.

Introducing dual spec compromises the vanilla experience. Period. That’s the end of it. There’s nothing else to consider. Any argument you make is irrelevant.

So does the sharding that was in the demo, but let me guess…you’re still gonna play it even though your all important ideals have been tarnished, right?

[Dealloc-dethecus (Dealloc)]

So does the sharding that was in the demo, but let me guess…you’re still gonna play it even though your all important ideals have been tarnished, right?

Strawman. Address the issue or get out.

[Asuramaru-tichondrius]

Strawman. Address the issue or get out.

It’s not a strawman, it was a question.

We all know you’re going to play classic even though there’s non vanilla elements in it so your vanilla purist grandstanding is just that, useless.

[Ahnalla-arygos]

Nope. No need for dual spec. I actually wish changing spec weren’t even an option. Let alone dual spec.

[Dealloc-dethecus (Dealloc)]

It’s not a strawman

It’s a very flamable strawman. One thing has nothing to do with the other.

Dual spec compromises the vanilla experience. Period. It doesn’t belong in Classic because it quite literally is not Classic.

[Asuramaru-tichondrius]

Thatd be hardcore, eating nails for breakfast hardcore.

It’s not a strawman

It’s a very flamable strawman. One thing has nothing to do with the other.

Dual spec compromises the vanilla experience. Period. It doesn’t belong in Classic because it quite literally is not Classic.

And neither is sharding.

But there’s going to be sharding. And you don’t care/don’t care enough to boycott it.

Therefore your purist gooblegobble weasel talk is just that.