Dual spec please

WoW Classic Cataclysm Classic Discussion
1943

Also, let’s go ahead and discuss the real world ramifications on TBCs design that putting SoB on Alliance has.

Go ahead, list me some design-altering elements about it that harm the TBC experience.

I’m not implying there isn’t any, by the way. It reduces the uniqueness of Blood Elf Paladins fullstop, and I can recognize that as a potential issue when it comes to TBC identity.

However, a problem TBCC was going to face, and was known well I’m advance which is likely why this change was made, was that horde vastly outnumber alliance, several times the amount they did in original TBC.

Because of this, Blizzard likely thought measures needed to be taken, and that’s why we also get an enlistment bonus for winning BGs and there’s same faction queues (rare to see as an alliance if ever).

The extreme disparity of population in faction demanded changes be made because the experience would in-turn be inauthentic due to players heavily effecting a statistic that wasn’t as heavily affected back then.

Same thing with drums. Drums were used, but they going to be a potentially meta-centralizing element that stood to possibly hurt the raiding scene (forcing everyone to be LW etc), which led to drums changes. It’s worth noting that initially Blizzard was opposed to changing them and voiced as such in that main thread.

If authenticity was not their goal, why would they do this?

Regardless, they did ended up tweaking drums.

Point in all this is Blizzard has their own line for deciding what should be tweaked or not but they also observedly are trying to keep things authentic to a degree.

So far it seems dual spec has fallen out of that ven diagram, and it’s worth noting that of all the many tweaks and features or changes to TBCC, dual spec is the only one being asked for that literally has blue posts in direct opposition to it founded on claims of it being directly opposed to their desired design framework.

That means dual spec very uniquely has a deck stacked against it that is unlike any other feature-beg.

Could Blizzard change their mind and add it? I mean, yes, they could also add pink unicorn store mounts on top of the Nether stalker. They could do anything, who even knows, but realistically?

It’s unlikely. Very. They didn’t even add it in to SoM, and people whined about dual spec in classic too.

1944

And if you could actually explain any design altering ramifications of dual spec this might be relevant.

Dual spec is literally just another way to do something we can already do in game.

SoB actually adds an ability to alliance that never had it in TBC originally. And blizzard originally intended there to be faction identity, which is why a number of abilities were faction specific. So that really does have a real ramification because it directly impacts your choice of faction, same with adding HvH BG’s.

3 Likes
1945

IDK PROBABLY?

Not I. I would quit on the spot. If I didn’t have to go to my faction city, pay 50g, and reset up my action bars every time I swapped from pve to pvp content I know I wouldn’t continue playing.

I probably would just go do some LFR on my vulpera death knight on retail because adding dual spec to tbc is the same thing.
/s

3 Likes
1946

They don’t. They flat out help it. Alliance ret paladins can actually raid (love you Juliet :kissing_heart: :rofl:). But they sure are design-altering, although I don’t think the original design was really intended, or good.

Dual spec falls into that category of “design-altering element that helps the TBCC experience.” In this, I think the original prohibitive nature of respec costs was intended, just not good.

Clarification: design altering as in, goes directly against the way the game was then. As I and others have stated, it doesn’t actually change player power, encounter design, or anything else to do with combat. It simply changes players’ access to (and attitudes towards doing) content. Only a good thing.

2 Likes
1947

8 min 9 seconds for 3 dailies

Blood fillet
revenge is tasty
Fires over skettis

But hay, about 10 minutes is a lie right?

Since he insists I’m a liar just thought I would continue to show my times, and I’m doing fires of skettis just to meet his 3 requirement when I said 2-3.

1948

Oh, yes, actually I have those right here, happy to provide again.

bluetracker.gg/wow/topic/us-en/98646792-we-need-free-respecs-or-spec-swapping/

1949

A position that changed during TBC :slight_smile:

Why? BEcause lack of dual spec didn’t work out very well with design decisions made going into TBC.

1 Like
1950

It changed during WOTLK. A different expansion. The proof being that…that was when it was added…6 months after launch.

Probably worked out exactly as it was designed.

1 Like
1951

As I’ve stated before, I personally feel that the cost of the respec is a non-issue (probably because I don’t raid log and I have enough consumes to last me the duration of TBCC, and enough gold to last me well into WOTLK).

My complaints revolve entirely around having to reconfigure my UI/Weakauras. This means that I will never swap to prot just to do a dungeon, whereas if I didn’t have to do that I absolutely might.

The reality is that the Blizzard ‘dev team’ on classic is so small that they don’t have the ability to make these code changes even if they wanted to. Nobody at Blizzard is adamant that people should have to reconfigure their UI constantly, which is why it was introduced in wrath. There is absolutely nothing different from that perspective as far as game design is concerned.

It doesn’t mean that we can’t ask for it, and maybe someone finds the time to consider it. The ‘authenticity’ argument when it comes to code behind talent/bar profiles means literally nothing.

1952

Actually it changed during TBC, and obviously it wasn’t working out exactly as intended or they wouldn’t have changed it.

Early on blizzard just threw a lot of stuff at the wall to see what stuck and what didn’t. Lack of dual spec may or may not have made sense in vanilla(where it was actually intended for) but the massive changes going into TBC kind of changed that. And whether you like it or not TBC had much more significant basic class/game play changes than wrath did.

1953

Prove it. Oh wait, you can’t.

1954

How is it I’ve reposted, hundreds of times maybe, a quote from the devs during TBC, rejecting dual spec’s inclusion, literally how they felt during TBC, and you can still say this???

Like, you’re blowing my mind are you literally THIS impervious to new information!?

1 Like
1955

I thought you had linked something recent, actual lul. In 2007 they also deemed that Alliance shouldn’t have seal of blood. The fact that they gave alliance seal of blood means that the blue post you just linked loses a massive amount of weight.

1 Like
1956

No, it means that Seal of Blood and Dual spec are not held in the same regard of importance to the TBC experience, hence why they decided to change Seal of Blood individually of themselves without community input and in contrast haven’t said the faintest wink about dual spec.

Also, strange to me to downplay the words of the TBC-era devs/blues when that’s exactly what TBCC is attempting to copy. Clearly it’s relevant information.

1 Like
1957

No, that’s not how it works. They released dual spec in wrath of the lich king. in 2021 they gave alliance seal of blood. It looks like Blizzard fully supports changes to the game in 2021, that they didn’t support in 2007.

You have no leg to stand on here. You are literally choosing what changes you are OK with. Blizzard has undeniably made meaningful changes to TBCC that deviate from the vision of the original TBC devs.

You’re approaching the argument without considering all of the facts. If you’re not willing to consider other facts, you are not arguing in good faith and should summarily be ignored.

2 Likes
1958

The development team for WOTLK was not only different in make-up, but the design philosophy was completely different. Using any of those philosophies completely contradicts the entire goal of aiming to be like an earlier expansion.

That later expansions added things, is completely f’n irrelevant to what should be added to a classic server to compromise it’s integrity further.

And dual spec is not one of those, dual spec actively goes against the design intention.

You have no evidence that other changes that were changed were specifically designed to not be changed. We have evidence of that with dual spec. Sorry.

You’re approaching the argument while ignoring facts, which is arguably even worse.

Let’s try an excercise:

Why do you think they haven’t added, and very likely won’t add dual spec?

1959

You left off a part but I got you bud:

“Also, I wanted to point out that the argument about people respeccing for Arena teams makes the assumption that everyone is somehow running in one and thus needs multiple respecs. This is not true. Not everyone is respeccing between PvE and PvP and it’s not a majority of players that need to”

Basically a big middle finger to anybody pointing out “hey us pvp’ers have to pay 100g every week to swap specs and raiders dont have to deal with this issue”

Then after two more years of complaints from the community the following gets posted in wotlk:

Nethaera : **Why are we allowing players to dual spec after all this time?

Ghostcrawler : We really felt like this was a great way to increase the flexibility available to players and encourage them to take part in more aspects of the game.

We really felt like this was a great way to increase the flexibility available to players and encourage them to take part in more aspects of the game.

To use just one example, some players like to participate in both raids and Arenas, which is awesome behavior that we want to promote.

But, there are some talents which are more useful in one part of the game than another. Currently, players have to pay respec costs and go through the process of setting up the desired talent spec and action bars whenever they switch.

The new system makes this a much more logical process, saving on time and cost and allowing players to easily move from one aspect of the game to another.”

2 Likes
1960

I already answered this earlier, I believe changes to code (new systems) are a staffing/labor issue and have pretty much nothing to do with what the TBCC team wants to do or would be OK acquiescing to the community to provide.

1 Like
1961

Except for the major parts where it wasn’t.

Sorry but he reality is that vanilla → TBC had more core changes than TBC → Wrath. Wrath was largely a refinement of things implemented in TBC.

1 Like
1962

Why they won’t add dual spec is nothing but speculation, we can only guess, but I’m not going to sit here and argue with you over who’s “probably” more right about why they won’t.

Fact is they won’t add it, and that’s a good thing. End of story. Period.