I appreciate this response. I don’t agree though and I think this is the main point of contention. I think there’s a loud outcry by a few but not a large outcry. A lot of people like the feature and want it but most aren’t passionate about it. I don’t actually think Dual spec will make anything substantially easier. I don’t see the respec cost as a huge barrier and I think the limitation of two specs in the dual spec approach does little if anything to alleviate that small barrier.
I can think of one use case that could be significantly effected such that it might be worthwhile - Arenas.
Again with this flawed reasoning. Adding dual spec merely makes it easier to do something you can already do in the game for 50 gold. Dk is something you cannot do in the game no matter how much gold you’d be willing to pay for it. It adds something totally new to the game. Riger and you keep asking for the line we draw for acceptable and unacceptable changes. That could be one of my lines though I don’t believe in setting arbitrary lines. I look at each change on it’s individual merits.
Not asking for an arbitrary line, I’d like reasons for where you would draw the line.
A consistent way in which you reason why one change should be supported and another not? Is it simply that you like one change and don’t like another?
Well then we’re at an impasse, I don’t like the change you’re asking for.
The biggest unified driver for dual-spec, that I don’t believe anyone can argue is a good thing is having to change your UI when you change specs.
I would be completely fine paying 50g to respec each time if I was able to lock in specs and not fat-finger a talent, and have my bars switch.
Again - making the game easier to play is not the same thing as making the game easier. This is an incredibly important nuance that is passed over - one that puts money in blizzards pocket.
I haven’t seen a coherent argument why dual spec is actually a bad thing for the game, outside of #nochanges - which is definitely coherent, but very flawed based on the track record of this release.
1 Like
I reason though each change. How will it affect me, others, the game as a whole. I try to understand how it will affect people who play differently than me. That’s why I get some respect for my posts on Pvp issues. I don’t play on pvp servers and I don’t often post about them but so long as people don’t insult me or call me a care bear pve player I have respectful discussions. I respect their desire to have good pvp on pvp servers and try to understand their views.
Well not really since I just gave you something of a line that you ignored. I’m generally against adding totally new things to the game.
There’s an add-on that does all the UI particulars for you when changing spec. Easily solved.
They just use all sorts of convoluted reasoning and rationalizations to claim all the changes so far have actually been done to preserve authenticity.
Do tell, which addon auto talents on reset, changes my buttons, my weakauras and their positions, raid alerts/frames?
1 Like
Right, the seal of blood change was definitely done to preserve authenticity. Except it wasn’t, it was because the players asked for it.
1 Like
If it’s anything related to the placement or configuration of your add-ons, dual spec doesn’t do that either, smarty.
Great that services nicely as a definition. Nothing new (only features that already exist in some version of the game?).
I actually don’t draw that line. A custom solution is fine with me. To my mind it is more important that the change preserves the original design intent. In some cases I wouldn’t mind the original design intent be deviated from but that’s only where the benefit is significant and pretty much guaranteed.
OK, sure. I was hoping maybe you had one. So which one remaps all my bars and auto talents for me?
Try talented is an addon for saving talent templates and applying them, and weakauras and such have profiles you can use too.
1 Like
Every person in favor of dual spec has been against adding DK’s which is one of the favorite suggestions most against dual spec use in an attempt to tar us as all changes. It’s extremely likely those who have specifically addressed are against it too. I think you know that and are just being disingenuous again.
And to append this, action bars can be profiled with action bar saver or really several other similar addons.
2 Likes
See here, I try and reach out and you spring the trap … Again. There’s literally nothing disingenuous about me claiming that you can’t generalise all pro dual spec people.
I mention that not everyone on your side wants the same and then you use that against me.
Essentially you want this to be red team versus blue team and good versus evil. No it’s a ploy.
There’s nuance, the fact is you hate nuance and want to trap everyone into a binary position. Teams of good guys and bad guys. Everytime the discussion goes to a more productive place you aim to scuttle it.
1 Like
OK so if we can achieve all of the benefits of dual spec (or more) with addons, what exactly is the reason not to have it done in game without requiring addons?
Put an NPC in that charges you 50g to change and the game does it for you, the gold sink is literally all that’s left, no?
3 Likes
I’m curious why you’re against DKs though, the lot of you refuse to go deeper.
I’m not trying to convince you to be for DKs, I’m trying to find your line and how you justify that line by starting at the extreme and working backward.
Yes, the gold sink is the primary reason anyone complains about wanting it, and in addition, what Blizzard said on the matter is also an issue (it erodes the impact of spec choice).
How is anyone equating adding a new class to the game and enabling dual spec? I’m absolutely boggled at this logic.
1 Like