If that’s true they’re not competent to know what they want then - if their level of understanding of game impacts from the change is equivalent to yours.
If talents are inconsequential why bother picking any? Why do you need dual spec or any spec? Just run talentless, won’t impact the game at all …
Funny you should mention that. A friend and I were talking about that regarding folks talking about stuff they didn’t know about.
Dunning-Kruger really just boils down to the ability to argue for something confidently and convince people based on your own sense of confidence in what you’re saying aside from whatever facts your bring to the table.
In your case, it’s ironic. Again.
I’m not making a proposition so I’m not debating something confidently as someone with expertise in it. I am doubting your proposition and your confidence that you are competent to know what’s best. My confidence in my doubt is based on my belief in your lack of competence in the area being discussed.
All I know is that the game I’m playing now is fun for me. If something is done to improve others fun fine, but I’d prefer as little to screw up my fun as possible and I certainly don’t trust your capability to make the call on what’s best. If the future of the game were in your hands, I’m confident I’d be playing something else very quickly.
I know enough to know that the impact of this change is potentially bigger than you think it is and probably bigger than I think it is. So, my preference is for people to advocate the least change required to solve the problem.
Doesn’t really matter if you’re debating whatever.
Like, I haven’t even shed any light of the fact that you’re clearly not reading the articles in question in full context when you assume they’re of “Cataclysm.”
That’s just stuff I leave to the wayside so you can strangle yourself with your own presuppositions concerning whatever the subject-matter is.
What we’re doing right now, this back and forth, isn’t something I’m doing to “prove” anything at this point in time. Delimicus has already done that.
As of this point I’m assuming you’re just responding to me for the sake of bumping the thread because you actually want dual spec.
The first one you linked was cataclysms’ the subsequent ones (much later in the discussion) are different implementations.
The fact that you’re position is incoherent is not a reflection on mine. Having stated you chose to defend an implementation you’re now hedging to various ones - well we’re back at square one then - you have a poorly defined incoherent proposition.
I’ll ask again - which implementation are you proposing?
You keep turning around to make me defend - but I’m not making a proposition and there’s nothing for me to defend. You need to defend your proposal. At the moment your proposal is to have anyone of three dual spec implementations put into TBC. You defend this on the basis that talents and changing talents has no impact on gameplay - please substantiate that counterintuitive claim.
Nope, it gave a history and you can figure this out by scrolling through the article and then reading about changes through patches.
The one that gives us the ability to switch between two specs.
I away the next ream of text…
They all do - do you want all the implementations at once then? Or maybe no change as we already can switch between two three four or any number of specs. Since implementation is not important (according to you) then you’re happy with the current implementation?
Your position is incoherent.
And you’re right, I shouldn’t be replying to you. Every sentence is just fodder for you to misuse and spread lies and misinformation with.
I’m not replying to you’re obvious attempts to subvert appropriate discussion from here. I did previously because I didn’t want your dishonesty to stand uncorrected. But I think your motives and tactics are clear enough now for everyone to see and they can make an informed decision on the worth of your comments. Any further reply to you just gets in the way of that.
“Your”, Riger. Don’t slip up on your writing skill snow.
Regardless, this is just another question answered by most folks talking about dual spec in general. In particular, I defer to Delimicus:
I stopped talking with that clown for a reason riger.
He doesn’t understand the effects dual spec can have in tbc compare to wotlk.
Let’s just look at what a dps shaman can bring. Let’s say you have a shaman with equal gear for ele and enhance, and equal skill in both roles. We will assume he does exactly the same dps regardless of spec. With dual spec he becomes able to compliment melee dps or caster dps, and which one is more beneficial is based on the fight mechanics.
An easy example from Kara is the enfeeble effect. Melee dps are at a much higher risk of death from it because of the bosses melee aoe effects. That can kill a melee instantly if they also get enfeeble at a bad time. This means being ranged is safer and in turn easier for the raid. Now we see an instance where being able to switch roles from melee dps to ranged dps makes the fight easier. But we aren’t even looking at the buffs and debuffs.
Ele buff all casters in their group by a good 3% spell hit and crit, enhance has a 10% to melee attack power. Now you have the ability to change roles on the spot based on raid comp with no cost to help maximize your groups. Is the tank good and aggro and your casters can go ham? Go ele and be in their group for even more dps!
Tank is holding dps back because of aggro? Go enhance and give the tank more AP to keep aggro better and let the dps go harder. But wait there’s more!
Dual spec opens this option up to multiple other classes as well which results in making raids even easier. From having dps change spec to maximize their power per fight (arcane mage is single target, fire/frost for aoe, seed spec warlock for aoe king, or shadow bolt for single target, exc.) All the way to changing the healer and tanks brought to raid. Tank healing is easy but raid healing is hard in a fight, holy pally is now ret, ele shaman is now resto. Fights much easier now because resto shaman is much better at raid heals than a holy paladin, and he can do it while healing the tank too!
Dual spec has very noticeable changes to the meta, content consumption, class viability, and even the economy in the long run. And this is just what I can think of, I’m sure there’s other negative effects it will have.
“Now” not snow
I couldn’t help but post this for the irony of it.
Going to leave this here.
You’re the one being intellectually dishonest but sure, I’m the one lying for pointing out a few of the ways dual spec can drastically change the game and how it’s content is consumed…
The more you spam that quote the more it’s just spam, and you do know that’s against the forum rules right? It’s a reportable offense, just giving you a fair warning.
Calling someone a clown is also a reportable offense.
Yep. I’m okay with some of the more restrictive implementations (though prefer none) but being able to adjust spec on the fly in the one raid lockout is clearly going to impact on game play.
Mind you small changes can have unintended hard to predict impacts.
Example: I thought the one off character boost wasn’t going to impact the game, but here we are arguing with a whole bunch of boosted retailers, who have clearly now made it their mission to fix the games bugs and design flaws (things that used to be called challenges - modern gamers know better of course).
That isn’t quite true.
You’ll be expected to have specs for different situations. AoE/Single target, utility/damage, etc.
People whine about dps rolling on tank/healer gear as it is… MS>OS becomes moot when everyone has two specs.
Remember that over the years blizz has said:
“Note: Blizzard support can neither verify nor support “Main spec” or “off spec” during looting. Beware of situations where “MS > OS” is used as a loot rule.”
“These are just some examples of the ambiguity MS>OS can fall into.”
Get ready to, once again, be rolling for your spec while some pickle weasel is rolling for their class… because they’re all their main specs.
Will they really nail you for something that benign?
Your right, I shouldn’t insult clowns like that, at least they can be funny.
I’ve been suspended for less. It really depends on how many people are reporting you. These forums run by the mob rule. If enough people are mass reporting you then you can get a suspension. Happened to me with the circle jerk that was the vanilla classic AV discussion. Got reported for pointing out the map wasn’t what was causing the 99% loss rate for alliance. It was the afk/leacher infestation coupled with the rep farm heros that were treating it like a pve encounter and were intentionally losing by bugging the druids for extra rep turn ins instead of releasing them at a good time. Had about 3 dozen posts reported and unflaged after review before they eventually just handed me a 24 hour suspension on a post that wasn’t insulting in any way but was just stating the fast queue times for the alliance was creating a meta that was more efficient for the rep farm to intentionally lose than it was to try and win combined with the fact many alliance were rep farming alts at this point because their fast queue times let them get their mains exalted much faster than horde mains could. Which is what caused the alliance to have a 99% loss rate. It wasn’t the map making it happen, it was the meta of lose for rep. And I never claimed the map was perfect, just that the entire 99% loss rate couldn’t be blamed on the map.
Get enough reports and the moderators will silence you just to stop the headache for a little bit that is their job, even if you did nothing to deserve it.
Why do you have to invent imaginary implementations when we already have WotLK as an example? Just stop.
You can’t make an argument without twisting reality and making up non-existent scenarios.
People, including myself, have listed off tangible examples of how it would benefit players and all you can do is wave your hand vaguely and say “What if …”.
You’re detached from reality at this point trying to get me to engage you in fantasy land.
Benefits:
Now lets see you make an argument without using the word Implementation and referring to a system of dual spec that never existed.
No, you stop. And while you’re at it stop gaslighting. You don’t get to determine the words I use or recast their meaning to suit your own agenda. Wait for Wrath if you think it’s so great. Why you play TBC is beyond me - since you clearly think Wrath features are better and should be transplanted into TBC.
Just more examples of people begging for buffs and using dirty tricks to silence and belittle those who get in their way with pesky big words and whatifs apparently. These forums aren’t discussion they’re petitions.