I’m not even discussing the core point anymore (I don’t care at this point if dual spec gets added) - just defending against lies and direct attacks on my character - what would you call it?
Mind pointing out where he did? I just took a quick glance through the thread and was unable to find it.
Sure - incoming - dredging it back up:
In this case Kanshu took one thing I said and cut it in half to mean the opposite of what I said and quoted it:
Then he quoted the full correct quote and pretended it was a seperate contradictory quote:
That’s a brazen lie. And he proceeded to lord this lie over me for loads of threads. There’s other similar examples too but this one is pretty plain to see and clear cut.
Now - it gets dredged up again - months later. To do what? Not to make a point or to argue the topic, nah, but rather to drag me through the mud again. I’m not hanging onto it - it got dredged up again by Egwyn - specifically to deride and discredit me.
You wonder why I don’t trust the dude or anyone defending him to have a discussion in good faith?
The conversation was actually going in a constructive direction before that. But that’s the thing - these four people don’t want a constructive conversation, they want a petition - and so they sabotage it by making stuff up. It’s in their interest to present it as a binary for or against with the “goodies” being for and the “baddies” being against. In reality it’s nuanced. There are some cases I can see some value in it but mostly I think it’s unnecessary and potentially detrimental to some aspects of the game. Much of this has been picked apart in detail already.
I do realise I have played the man and not the topic - but in my case it’s a reaction, in defence. If you want to address the topic I will too, but I will fight back if attacked.
Don’t want to be called a liar - then don’t lie. I mean this topic has been the dregs as far as “discussion” goes.
Okay, so just to clarify:
One person misquoted you in this thread and so you spent the next 3000+ comments being inflammatory towards those who were trying to have an honest conversation?
No offense, but you make claims of direct attacks on your character, and yet not once have I seen you even attempt to be civilized, even towards those who have offered you a respectful discourse.
It seems to me like you need to let it go.
There’s plenty of “misquotes” and false claims.
If it were just done to me I wouldn’t care. It’s a handful of people - four specifically - who strategically do it to many people. They do it to keep bumps and to keep a perpetual conflict to promote their preference to the devs. The behaviour literally kills productive and interesting discussion. It’s a common strategy because it works. They get away with it.
But yeah - what can I do about it? Nothing - so you’re right, I should let it go. I just wish the forums had some decent moderation. The behaviour is endemic to these sorts of threads.
And yet you engage in it yourself, as pointed out by others in this thread.
Sorry, but you’re not much better than those you allegedly push back against.
Whatever. As far as I’m concerned the topic was done to death 3 months ago. No-one (on either side) has raised a single valid new point since. It’s all just been an attack and misinformation merrigoround.
But if someone dredges up an out of context bunch of quotes attributed to me, I’ll be responding with why I said those things and if I said them. Maybe ask yourself why someone thought three months of my comment was worth bringing back up now (out of context), and how that added to the discussion. Perhaps consider that my reactions are not without significant provocation.
The sole aim of Egwyns post was to attack and stoke up something, a reaction - maybe ask her or him why s/he chose that action and what it contributed to the thread.
If calling me “just as bad” or a “hypocrite” means that we’ll all stop behaving like cads, go for it - I hope it works. I’m more than happy to have a civil discussion. Bring it on.
We have tried letting it go. They keep bringing it back up though and refuse to actually discuss the topic.
I have had my arguments misquoted, misrepresented, outright dismissed through claiming it is fear mongering, been called a lair, had people claim I’m not qualified to talk about the topic because I post on a non tbcc toon (and showed my main upon request) and then it goes full circle with then starting from the beginning of the antics again.
Us pointing out there tactics doesn’t make us lairs. You can go back through the read and see for yourself. Not to mention they have tried making multiple other dual spec threads to try and escape discussion on the topic and get their echo chamber of approval for it.
Megarune is an example of this as he was active in here, then ran off to make a new thread, hoping to escape actual discussion.
If people character assassinate you for nearly a year, you lose what patience you had with them. I’ve had to take multiple self induced vacations from this topic to keep myself more composed. Honestly the fact I have had multiple posts in this very thread mass reported and then upon review them to be found as false reports and the post restored shows the type of attitude these people have toward actual discussion on the topic.
No, you put them on ignore, turn notifications off, and then move on with your life.
You don’t stoop to their level and then imply you’re somehow better than them; that you hold some sort of higher responsibility to defend everyone that may have been “attacked” as justification for what you do.
That fact is that the mudslinging has been going on for so long now that I can’t discern who started it. All I know is that months after this thread should have died, the same people that were in it to begin with are still mudslinging, but the only difference is that one side insists that they’re in the right by running in circles justifying their actions.
Get over yourselves.
I don’t ignore anyone and if someone is spreading lies or misrepresenting my arguments I want to know about it. Your proposed solution is to let them continue spreading lies and misinformation without getting any word of the truth in.
And they are the ones making this “discussion” go in cycles.
I think you need to reread the thread to see who started the insult war.
I’ve had that happen to me as well. It’s likely it happened to other people too. I’ve seen it happen on numerous threads on many different topics, anytime there’s a topic that people feel strongly about. Should I assume that shows the type of attitude those against dual spec have towards actual discussion?
That’s exactly what I say about you. I’ve said it many times. I’m confident that anyone who has read your posts sees you for what you are.
That’s not true and I’m sure you know it. No one who supports dual spec ever suggested or agreed to a 24 hour cool down. It certainly wasn’t what was first suggested. Dual spec was first suggested as it was added in Wrath with no additional limitations. Due to your and others concerns some suggested adding the limitation to just changing specs in a major city while others to just adding a cool down. Eventually most agreed to do both, having a 30 minute cool down and specs only changed in a major city. Then we agreed to an hour cool down and only changed in a major city. Finally for the first time Ziryus suggested a 3 hour cool down which I thought was excessive but agreed to also. Then Basil suggested a 24 hour cool down for no reason I could find and people disagreed to that. No one raids for 24 hours straight. Why would anyone need a 24 hour cool down to stop abuse of dual spec in raids? It just shows how unreasonable and irrational you are.
Here’s a fact. I’ve often found posts, quoted them, and proved you lied. You’ve never found posts to prove you’re telling the truth and I’m lying. All you’d have to do is find someone who supports dual spec that suggested a 24 hour cool down before basil did in his CC thread. Over 6k posts in this thread. Surely you can find someone who supports dual spec that suggested we add a 24 hour cool down. That would prove me wrong. There’s a search engine on the top of this page. You can put “24 hour cool down” and select search just this topic so it should be easy to find if you’re not lying.
This entire debate has like 3 threads on the go, two of which are still very active, and you guys constantly refer back to this thread in the other ones (since at the end of the day it’s basically the same people debating the topic).
These posts are from 2 days ago. Stop trying to act like me coming back in here to read the things you were referencing is some gratuitous act of necroing.
Anyways not sure what I expected, I didnt find any actual valid responses from you or anyone else rebutting our points arguments for dual spec, and I’m sorry but I found the 2 pages worth of insults quoted from you after you demanded everyone debate things civilly to be hilarious. Since, you know, more of the same from you in that thread.
Its kind of amusing in ways, ultimately the most damaging thing for you is to just be confronted with your own words.
Yeah, this guy actually misquoted you here, whether or not it was intentional idk but you’re kinda blowing it massively out of proportion imo calling it character assassination. But, fair’s fair, dude was wrong
No thanks. It’s 6000+ comments and I’m not about to sift through all of it just to figure out who was in the wrong.
The fact remains that your superiority complex and your actions are at odds with one another.
What truth? We’re all people expressing our opinions. Nobody is saying what they’re saying is absolute truth.
The truth if who started the mud flinging contest for starters?
The truth of who is intentionally misquoted and misrepresenting other people’s arguments for their own agenda?
The truth of the fact that dual spec goes directly against tbc design goals (not exact design, but the goals behind the design) which quotes from the devs back then have been given to support as evidence to that truth?
There’s plenty of truths to find. Which one are you looking for?
The person who claimed that those in favor of dual spec first suggested or agreed to a 24 hour cool down.
Find anyone in this topic, over 6k posts, who supports dual spec that suggested or supports a 24 hour cool down. Prove me wrong.
Never said it was this specific thread.
But hay enjoy misquoting and calling me a liar all you like to meet your agenda.
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