No you didn’t. In the greater context of the thread though it was implied by others and Kaivax that it was due to feral being a strong ST option. I don’t see anywhere in this chain that you advocated for more AoE damage so there is a bit of assumption on my part that you believe our lackluster AoE is okay so long as our ST is okay. Perhaps that’s wrong. But this is the thread to make that case.
It is. 10 char.
I’m not a mind reader.
1 Like
Right, but we can’t use log data right now to properly analyze feral’s viability under the conditions that will exist for most of this patch. What we can do is predict (usually with accuracy) how it will perform relative to other specs without any further tuning. And what we’re saying is that further tuning will likely be necessary, which–historically–has not worked out well for feral.
Because of the reasons outlined earlier (feral being melee and not offering unique, impactful utility to the group or raid) it needs to be at (or close to) the top in dps to justify inviting one. So, if we aren’t even near the top in a patchwerk sim, it is extremely unlikely that will change without more tuning. Specifically:
- The (2) Set Bonus needs to further reduce Berserk’s cooldown in order to avoid uncoupling with convoke.
and/or - The (4) Set Bonus needs even more of a damage increase
and/or - LotP needs to be unpruned
“Time is a flat circle.” That’s what I think when someone on the feral forums tell me to:
Its not like any devs play feral so no meaningful changes will happen till then.
1 Like
Why is mastery our bonus stat still? Without conduits, you could remove rip from our single target rotation and use those combo points only on fb and do the exact same damage. Imagine that, a 5 point combo rip being that useless. Only reason to cast rip now is because of a conduit that buffs fb for # of bleeds on a target. Why not change our bonus stat from mastery to crit - or hell - even haste to give us more energy regen?
Why does our finishers cost our combo points AND our energy?
Seems to me, the answer to a lot of feral’s problems have already been solved on other classes. Wouldn’t it be nice to have an ability that has 2 charges that when used make our abilities cleave (aka rogue/warrior)? Now we would be able to decide if we want to apply and aoe rake (can remove thrash) or an aoe shred (can remove swipe/brutal slash) or an aoe rip (can remove primal wrath) or - god help us - an aoe ferocious bite on quick dying mobs.
Would be nice if Savage Roar would last, when cast in its pandemic window, almost a full minute and cost no energy with only 3 of our combo points (aka palidan’s combo buff).
Would be nice to remove sabertooth and give us back our ‘mini’ execute where fb refreshed rip under 20% health.
Would be nice for the class dev to actually play the class and realize we aren’t combo point starved, we’re energy starved - how exactly is Scent of the Blood helping us when to maintain that buff we have to spend 40 energy every 6 seconds for a thrash (not including what ever energy is used for swipe and our FINISHER that shouldn’t cost energy to begin with)? We don’t generate enough energy to even look at this talent but there it sits for 3 expansions.
Why does our maim as one of our FIVE FINISHERS cost anything at all (rogue?)?
While I’m at it, I’m sick and tired of telling my mythic+ group on any key above 10 ‘sorry’ for not focusing down the correct mob for the reduced CDR buff because convoke is so FUISO&(W)(* STUPID that it decided to fb the mob to my left 3 times instead of my god da&* target. Speaking of convoke, using convoke with more than one mob is a dps LOSS because it has to ‘dot’ and ‘hot’ everything around me first before fb’ing (single target convoke bursts +40k, aoe it bursts 15k). Remove sunfire, moonfire, and anything else boomkin, resto, and guardian from the randomness that is convoke and make any fb’s cast apply to my fracking target (why this wasn’t done from the beginning is beyond me). Can’t help but think because of how convoke works and this season’s affix, feral is dead for m+.
Last, why is it that feral only gets fixed via gimmicks in the very last patch of the last 4 expansions whether its a weapon tree, corruption gear, or lego’s only to have those gimmicks taken away from us at the beginning of a new expac for this cycle to repeat over and over and over? Why are you trying to make it look like our 3 minute CD is not completely and utterly USELESS - worst 3 minute cd in the game BY FAR and its been that way for yet again the last 3 expansions. Here’s your clue on how bad this 2/4 set is - its not our tool kit that’s being buffed like every other set in the game - its simply ADDING a dot that didn’t exist without the set. Why don’t you BALANCE our class at a CORE LEVEL.
1 Like
Someone want to tell him or should I?
I’m just gonna hurt his feelings.
1 Like
2 Likes
You aren’t going to hurt anyone’s feelings - Mastery bonus is a RELIC left over when our bleeds use to be our top dps - you know - remember when you could apply an empowered rip/rake/thrash from a well controlled proper bloodtalens. Since they “fixed” the class to make it more accessible to the masses, we’re now a completely crit based spec where FB (on single target) does 50+% of our damage.
50% you say!!!
Wow!!!
That’s a lot of damage affected by mastery.
/facepalm
Read the tool tip before you post next time.
It’s doing that damage because its critting for 60k almost half of the time - we’re a crit based class which is why we stack as much crit as we can… /facepalm
The mastery is absolutely a leftover of years long gone because of the first part of that tool tip which increases our bleeds. But, lets hyper focus on that and nothing else in my post which has been stated over and over in alpha, beta, and throughout the last 4 expansions.
… and because mastery affects finishers.
- 30% of that is also Bloodtalons.
Look. You goofed up. Don’t go and keep digging a hole.
Im so happy you said this.
Let’s look at the rest of your post, shall we?
If you thought mastery affecting ALL finishers was crazy, wait until you hear about this popular talent used by everyone.
This is why blizz doesn’t read the forums.
People who dont understand the class giving their unwanted opinions.
1 Like
my god dude - you don’t get it… we are literally FORCED to use that talent because our finishers not only cost our combo points but our energy as well which is a stark contrast to other combo point using classes like pali or rogues where white swings now replenish both combo points and energy.
This is why Feral got the crap changes that weren’t needed back at the end of legion. People who don’t understand (or worse, a previous theory crafter who hadn’t played wow in 2 years) pretending to be an expert telling the dev’s that everything is fine… no issues with feral for m+/aoe here… convoke is awesome… ignore everything.
Are you suggesting that ferals dont have other means of generating CP or energy? Because you would be wrong again.
Stop talking.
You lost all credibility (which wasn’t much), right there.
Paladins are cooldown/charge based
Rogues use both energy and combo points on their finishers too
You don’t have to use it. Go ahead and go Crit/Vers and lemme know how that works out for you.
On the other hand, I’m gonna keep stacking Mastery and be 70/30 Mast/Crit and keep up in M+ just fine
Quick edit: I’m really looking forward to NF legendary next week when I get a major boost to Mastery every single minute putting me over 100% Mastery. Gonna make those Bites and PW Rips that much juicier <3
1 Like
Not sure how to exactly fix Feral but going back to 8.0’s spec design, making PW baseline, and making BrS a single target short CD ability that deals somewhere around 1.2-1.5x Shred damage /w something else – extending bleed duration? would be a great start.
Not only are Feral’s numbers not great now, the spec just feels terrible to play.
By actually adjusting base skills/talents instead of only just adjusting borrowed power.
1 Like
right but the problem isn’t just numbers. The problem is the kit and damage profile.
That generally shifts expansion to expansion based on what’s valued – immunes, sustained high single target DPS, funnel, single target burst v. AOE burst, etc.
My issues with Feral this expansion have been centered mostly on how the spec feels to play. We were good enough in CN/SoD, and although the jury is out on SOFO there are at least specific encounters where the Feral damage profile makes some sense as a last melee in.
I think a lot of it could be solved by that shift of damage out of FB and into everything else. That probably requires a Sabertooth nerf or rework, and that would lead to ???. It’s a holistic problem, I guess.
Which all boils down to base skills and talents…
I assumed ‘adjust’ was a much smaller scope thing.
Broadly speaking yeah they’d be adjustments but I’m referring to more of a holistic treatment: what is Feral’s niche, what’s it good at, how does that play into what matters at Mythic raiding or high level M+, and so on.
fair point tho.