There’s just so much wrong with how you’ve handled feral tuning it’s not even worth providing additional feedback at this point, you ignored everything we’ve been saying for 6 years.
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Is there any chance you guys would consider revising the balance druid 4 set to something like:
(4) Set Bonus: While in an Eclipse, the cost of Starsurge reduced by 15% and Starfall is stackable.
I’m by no means a theory crafter, but I feel like it would go a long way in making moonkin feel better outside cooldowns in keys. I know teir sets are probably more raid focused, but just a suggestion.
Thanks for the laugh. We look forward to remaining bottom tier DPS for now and forever. We very nearly ALMOST got to experience what being upper bottom tier DPS felt like, but that was swiftly dealt with, and ferals were justly put back in our place fighting it out for last place DPS rankings.
Ferals a strong option hahahahaha I can’t believe a blue typed that with a straight face. What a complete joke. They think we’re fine. The spec might as well be deleted from the game if they think this is what a “strong option” for single target looks like.
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? There’s nothing incorrect about that statement. Feral still has very strong single target damage.
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Classic toon posters, ammirite??
It’s average, even after the changes, and still > 13% behind enhancement shaman. Why waste a melee spot on a feral when there are so many better options that either do more dps or offer more useful utility? It’s even more of a pronounced problem in m+, where spots are even more limited.
In order for feral to be justifiably present in a raid or key it either has to offer top (or very close to it) dps OR useful, unique utility like LotP. Currently we offer neither, and so, the struggle will continue for yet another patch without further changes.
lol… actually? devs you do realize even with the 4 piece buffs feral is lower mid pack.
The way it needs to work is if you give Feral literally nothing in the way of group utility, then they must be compensated with outstanding singletarget dps OR outstanding aoe dps. Feral has NO group utility, NO solid single target and NO aoe.
iIts no wonder no one wants feral for raiding or keys. I don’t understand how the devs cant see this glaring issue with the class.
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No, it isn’t “average” by any definition of the word. It isn’t the best (thanks Sylvanas daggers) and you’re right it doesn’t beat Enh shaman, but it isn’t “13%” behind by any stretch of the imagination - not with currently available gear.
That is at best 2.5%, and subject to sample size skewing (i.e. more better players playing Enh than Feral).
Now, I’m not saying that Feral doesn’t have problems since it obviously does. However, blatantly making things up is just wasting everyone’s time.
Nobody’s making things up. The 13% is based on 4-piece, double legendary, and 280-285 IL. Warcraftlogs are incomplete (i.e., unreliable) data at this point.
Nobody cares what feral’s dps is right now. Enjoy the copium though. You’ll be coming down soon 
Followed very quickly by:
Things that are not existing in live yet.
How about we wait a week or two into double legendary + 4 piece and see how it turns out before crying wolf.
The great thing about mathematical simulations is that you can use them to accurately predict what will happen before it actually happens.
Not sure what’s worse though: feral’s perpetual state of mediocrity or the simpletons that crawl out of the woodwork every patch cycle to defend it.
Ah yes, because simulations have never been wrong before. Got it!
There’s 35 other specs in the game. If you’re so worried about yours not being #1, then swap to one that is. It’s that simple. Feral isn’t in a bad spot. Not the best, but not the worst. Begging for LoTP isn’t the answer either.
I’ve been hearing this for just about every patch for the last 18 years by people who don’t seem to understand how simming works. How about no.
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Remember how Cats Eye Curio was THE go to legendary because of Sims…and how those sims were wrong and Cats Eye dropped out of anything involving competition?
Sims are always correct yeah? Got it.
Stack ranks based on sims have never been an accurate depiction of anything ever for a whole host of reasons, not the least of which being that 5min Patchwork where you take 0 damage as a DPS doesn’t exist.
So, your solution is to disregard the data, and then establish a position based on conjecture? Got it.
It’s an accurate depiction of dps during uptime, which is the most important factor in determining overall dps on most encounters. There’s generally a positive correlation between log rankings and sim rankings.
Cherrypicking. It was fixed pretty quickly and it wasn’t even BiS for NF at the time the bug occurred. Unless you’re salty you crafted it?
A valid point; kind of. A patchwerk fight doesn’t occur often but generally there’s going to be a fight or two per raid that allows for high-uptime on the boss. This tier it’s Halondus and Skolex, for example. Your job as dps is to produce throughput on the boss through mechanics and sims create a target.
But you’re deflecting from the point which is that after Tier is doled out, feral is not in a good position relatively speaking. Middle of the pack in ST is fine…if it’s not ‘costing’ anything but Blizzard has this in their head that we’re supposed to be this great ST option and that comes at the cost of AoE. So our AoE is MEME-tier. Great. Can you explain to me why Subtlety doesn’t have this problem? Can you explain to me why, after everyone gets their 4pc, our ST is middle of the pack and our AoE isn’t notably better?
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My solution is to not cry wolf about something that is currently hypothetical since neither 4 piece nor double leggo, much less both of them together, is even capable yet. So currently your “tried and true” reasoning is just…fictitious at this point.
This is what we’re expecting vs this is what is. Give it time to actually hit the system and go through the kinks. Things are subject to change.
So any example of Sims being incorrect is going to be considered “cherrypicking”. That’s your rebuttal? “Anyone that can prove me wrong is cherry picking!” The fact still remains, the Sims which you guys are basing your entire argument off of…was wrong.
Talk about cherry picking. There’s 4 covenants and you focused solely on one. Got it
Not at all, I enjoyed the idea of how Apex would have played and that’s what I crafted and what I’ve played from the beginning.
Subtlety suffers on 2-5 targets. They need either strictly ST or large pulls to shine. Anything cleave and lower AoE count and they’re middle of the pack at best.
Show me the logs of those running their 4 pieces and we can break it down and find out.
Good lord. I’m not gonna break it down line by line.
First, it’s not hypothetical when Blizzard has made no mention, motion, implication, sign, smoke-signal, bat-signal or otherwise implied that feral is getting a buff or other classes are getting a nerf. That’s why we’re all in this thread right now. Because the writing is on the wall and it can still be addressed.
NF has been the go-to for PvE since 9.0. If you take issue with the fact that everyone was promised that there wouldn’t be a significant disparity between the covenants you can take it up with Blizzard and not out on me.
I know Subtlety, as does Assassination and Gambler specs, do well on ST and not well on multi-target. But it does better than feral on both and by a significant margin. We can debate what our opinions are on “significant margins”; but there’s no reason for it when there’s literally an aura buff that they can dump a flat 10% on and call it a day. But my point isn’t that Subt is OP or that they shouldn’t ALSO do good AoE damage. They should. And so should feral. For as long as they intend both M+ and raids to be considered end-game content they need to balance around both.
I am very confused because you say this:
Which is exactly what simmed stack rankings using 4p and double legendaries are, pure conjecture. And then you say this:
Which I generally agree with. There is the important caveat that sims don’t include downtime which Feral (a) doesn’t have a lot of and (b) suffers less than other specs when it occurs. Sims can provide a prediction of what might happen, but log data should always be the basis for actual decisions and/or complaints or whatever.
Because Sylv daggers exist in their current state.
No idea. I never said a single thing about AoE in this thread, at all.