I know bro cause your one of the buff pws people. I get that. But in SL i thought we were getting PoM back and we didint. I was unhappy we didnt and now we are. I have heard some rumblings that some spriests are happy that they can do some off heals. So we will see how that ends up. If pom drops shadow out of Sform then it wont be used.
I agree shadow needs some work tho. But buffing pws is not the way i see it going and i really dont tink blizz will do it.
Its 3s silence is a DR category.
Not really, I’m fine with pw:shield being what it is for disc, but if it stays like it is right now, its kinda meaningless for both holy and shadow.
My point is, instead of adding a new spell that might not see use for disc/shadow, why not empower a spell that has been baseline for a while and is mostly useless for 2 specs out of 3.
I’m not against PoM coming to disc, but I already have a lot of stuff on my action bars. I feel like the options on the right side of the tree are a lot better, even if I don’t pick SFP. Again, it’s all a matter of number tuning. We’ll see. But I still find the left section to be trash for shadow.
I feel that the priest tree is great for holy (edit: minus for crystalline reflection), the choices seems to be really meaningful for that spec and will likely be picked depending on content. Disc and shadow are kinda left behind though, which points to a problem.
Is the pw:shield solution better? It could better fit the 3 specs. If you add the empowerment that being shielded gives (See other talents in spec trees) and other goodies, it could become an interesting choice vs the fiend tree. Have like fae guardians be implemented with multiple talents in there for example and have a way to increase dmg done so that it’s not a complete no-brainer for shadow to pick the right side…
This is another reason why I was trying to come up with “Word” interaction mechanic talents for the class tree in my post above.
Either effect directly to Power Word: Shield or you can have that or other word spells or have multiple talents that affect a variety of word spells.
The idea is to reward cross play between spells that normally you would think is a waste of a GCD.
Problem is balancing… or is it?
My ideas that Mind Blast effects a Word spell means that it can’t be abused spam.
But a Word spell effecting a Word spell can. That’s why I put in a stack limit as to make it a bit more random so it’s helpful but you can’t abuse it that easily.
Since shadow uses SW:P & SW:D, can’t buff those too much because we already have shadow specific talents buffing those.
I am sure the same can be said for the Holy Words for Holy and the Power Words for Discipline.
But the key thing is that they all use “Word” spells that are just begging to be class talents for… to me it just makes sense as it’s a no brainer lol.
Echoing Void needs to collapse on corpses.
Here’s my feedback of the General Tree from a Holy Priest perspective:
Top Rows:
Middle Rows:
Bottom Rows:
Either way the TLDR of my major sticking points:
Problem is Atonement doesn’t play well with PoM. Unless renew or PoM apply some level of atonement, you can’t cast it during your ramp, and you can’t cast it during your burst.
Even if renewed faith affects it, Disc priests are already doing such insane healing in that window that they’re overhealing, so 10% literally doesn’t mean anything for that window.
And in dungeons, keeping a renew AND atonement rolling on people is going to quickly get tiring. One of those, “hey cool, this works and my atonement feels pretty good!” that becomes “This is so annoying how can I NOT play like this?” in a few dungeons.
What it would be is a spell you use off CD between your ramps to keep some HPS rolling. Benediction PoM is very good at that, to be fair. But that’s realistically its only possibly strong use and it’s hard to say if that’s good enough to justify the points. There’s gonna be a lot of mathing this out eventually. But chances are it’s not gonna get favor over other talents.
I feel like a lot of your ‘this should be a baseline class ability’ or ‘this shouldn’t be a talent’ feedback is just not considering what the new talent trees are. Every class has this “problem” because it’s how the talents were designed. Tier 1 talents and some Tier 2 talents are about unlocking what were normally had before - talents are both your level progression and borrowed power. Any things you would have gained passively during leveling have been relocated to the talent tree for every class. That’s why imp. smite is there, it’s why purify disease is there, etc.
I’m actually VERY surprised Blizz put something as powerful as Benediction in T1 and I have some thought that it’s going to change.
This seems to be absolutely deliberate, so I don’t think they’re going to change any of it.
I agree with almost everything else here, though.
Also to add on - I think the more confusing talents that exist right now are ones like Tithe Evasion - talents that you can grab without ever taking the spell it modifies. I think most classes have these SOMEWHERE in their trees, and priests have it a couple times but it feels very strange that they would ever make talents like this. These almost feel like oversights.
They’ve said that it’s possible to have “bad” builds. Like the old days before mop.
I was thinking that instead of Lightwell, maybe they should make the end talent the Fae Guardians from the Night Fae covenant. Rename it to something more inline with Holy. Then shielding an ally is relevant.
There’s a difference to me between ‘bad build’ and ‘actively harming yourself’
Bad Build:
Wow these things you took have no synergy. This talent does way less for you because you took another one. Why are you increasing your PW:S if you’re not even using it? etc, etc.
That is what pre-MOP bad builds were. In classic, TBC and even WOTLK you couldn’t just take talents that weren’t relevant at all to you. You could take talents that buffed spells you never used, but you still had the spell, etc. I didn’t play a ton of Cata, so maybe it’s different there.
Actively harming yourself:
You literally don’t have this spell, but you can shove 2 points into something that increases its damage, sure!
Old talent trees - if a talent had a dependency on another, then it would be attached to that talent in a linear line (similar to the Shadow Covenant line in Disc, for example). They didn’t just shove things in completely different parts of the tree.
I didnt say i was going to be that creeative bro. I was drunk when posting last night haha But i will def find the gcd for PoM. I already have my tree picked out and linked it and its all right side of priest tree. im just saying some genius in keys may think of something. Raids no
I already thought about using renew in keys. Renewed faith would be rather nice. But I did immediately write it off because using 2 globals that don’t help that much otherwise for your buffed heals sounds like a way to quickly get mad at my own playstyle. At least when you’re shadowmending you’re refreshing duration on your atonements. Renew is just… not gonna feel good to keep up when we already do that with atonement.
As someone who doesn’t play priests, or m+, this is my haphazard attempt at creating a build
Tongue in cheek… but… steal the holy ability back in the day of refreshing renew… Shadowmend refreshes renew duration
I know that any of the current pick one nodes are only two options but I REALLY would have liked to see one at the end of the priest tree with four options where you could only pick one and they were the four different covenant abilities. Different ones have different uses and it would be useful switching it up based on the content that you were doing. I’m really not loving that the only one they kept was mind games.
I also feel that there are a few talents that could have been consolidated such as cosmic ripple and piety of mana - that is 4 points (although I’m not sure that cosmic ripple is supposed to be 2 or if that was an error when it got posted), either way it would have been nicer to have them combined and cost two.
The worst thing about the current build is that you have to lose damage to get core defensive abilities. Why not move all those utility talents over to the Priest tree and swap with all the shadow damage picks. As it is I’m not picking silence, dispersion, psychic horror or vampiric embrace in favour of picking more damage talents.
The shadow tree overall is a mess, things linked that have no gameplay connection at all while more logical connections are on the other side of the tree (or even the base priest tree instead).
Shadowflame prism should not be a 100% lock for the spec (by being alone on the base priest tree it certainly is). SFP for me at least is a massive pain to play with, you overcap insanity and can’t do anything else during the shadowfiend duration, on live it’s actually better to keep void bolt on cd just to spam mb’s and sw:d’s more. SFP should be somewhere on the bottom left of the shadow tree.
Just delete StM already, if it somehow is viable it will just get nerfed again.
Void Torrent seems a little outdated, especially if SFP is going to be a permanent feature it just seems out of place (the damage is also pretty lackluster), maybe change the cd to 45sec and combine it’s effects with Damnation + increase the damage of the channel. It would make it a great opener cast again, because at the moment I’m not sure it beats out getting the SFP rotation going earlier.
There’s just way too much crap in the last tier of the tree, with the idol’s being obvious things to want to go for, you aren’t even left enough points to get halfway to the other side. I feel like you should be able to get the powerful talent and then explore towards the other side a bit (but obviously not have enough to get both sides powerful options). In the 3rd tier pretty much all of the talents other than the idols look god awful, either boring or not powerful.
Reworking the trees:
All non damaging abilities (self shields, silence, dispersion, vampiric embrace…etc) should be on the base priest tree, while all shadow damage talents should be on the Shadow tree.
Shadow Tree
First tier should be about aoe choice, move psychic link and shadow crash up here. Void Eruption should be the last talent to link to the next tier.
Second Tier left side could be more based on apparations and shadowfiend, the shadowfiend talents should go where shadowcrash is. The middle is about mind blast, shadow word: death and void bolt. Right side should be more dots and channel based.
Third tier should continue the trend from the second. The idols need changing around with Yogg-Saron swapped for N’zoth. SFP should lead into the left idol, Void Torrent leads into the right and Mindgames the bottom center.
Base Tree
Removing all the mandatory shadow damage picks opens up the tree for some interesting choices, I won’t go through every tier but Dispersion and Vamp Embrace should be the final options at the bottom right rows.
Overall this looks like a very very early draft and I’m at least glad its out there early to get this kind of feedback because it definitely needs it.
I’m actually happy to see damage talents in the priest tree. Healers need those. I look forward to SFP as disc.
I’d be more interrested to remove healing habilities from the priest tree and have holy dmg or self buffs that even a shadow priest might want to pick… Right now the left side has a bit of both but is more focussed on healing. Which makes it less interresting for both shadow and disc in my book.
Actually this one seem awesome considered you can mixt it with Twist of faith to boost its healing even more.
Also it give an additionnal Holy word for Holy to proc Resonant word. If it would also proc Cosmic ripple and Divine word now it would make it even nicer tough.
But overall the healing you can do is insane to save a tank from dying Just by using Holy Word Life + Serenity.
I think it would also be nice if Disc had a Talent to turn Pw:S into AoE shield so it would fix the Atonement problem a bit. Cause the main issue is Radiance the only AoE Atonement proc they have and its 60% its duration. What disc Need is a regulard AoE atonement proc and a duration buff like the old PvP talent. Not a 2 sec or a 6sec every 3min
Here’s my feedback of the Holy Priest Tree:
Top Rows:
Middle Rows:
Bottom Rows:
I really do not like just stuffing healers with tons of passive + active mana gains because the scenario of healers eventually reaching infinite mana may become in reach. Mana costs would have to be massively increased for healing abilities and/or the raid encounters would have to batter the raid hard.
This basically punishes any Priest player for not stacking 3-4 different mana gain abilities. It’s just a bad design imho.
Either way…
Final Thoughts:
Example on what I mean:
If Cosmic Ripple + Piety of Mana were 1 point each and the Rune talents were merged than you could save 3 points that you can slot into things like lolwell (if you wanted it) and Resonant Words.