Dragonflight Feedback: Renown Rewards (Cosmetic Weapons) feel bad due to Weapon limitations

Since folks have asked, this is a repost from an Alpha forum post. Trying to get as many involved in the conversation as possible, so if you’re in Alpha, head to the OP here:

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-renown-rewards-cosmetic-weapons-feel-bad-due-to-weapon-limitations/1328787

Thread TL;DR

Most of the Cosmetic Renown Weapons are unavailable to many player classes due to Weapon restrictions. Since Cosmetic armor is usable by everyone, why can’t cosmetic weapons follow the same rule-of-fun, especially since most of the renown rewards are meant to be “Civilian/simple” weapons.

Renown in Dragonflight

As it stands on the Beta, Renown in Dragonflight is on track to be both extremely rewarding and varied in the types of content it offers. Each Renown Rep offers a variety of max-level content (Fishing activities, Dragonriding content, battle companions in the Plains and archaeology/explorer themed activities) and a wide arrange of cosmetic transmog options.

Each reputation offers a variety of cosmetic armor pieces and as such, they are usable by all classes. 3 of the four reps offer a variety of race-themed hats, shoulders and back pieces with the Expedition offering ensembles/cloaks for the leveling sets.

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:arrow_up: Pictured above: Example of some of the rewards coming from Renown

While the activities/content themselves look fun and engaging, I think one of the major problems with the cosmetic rewards is the weapon limitations.

To be blunt: the weapon renown rewards feel bad as they are extremely limited in who can use them. While there are a variety of “civillian style” weapons and rewards, all of them are locked to a specific weapon type which ultimately creates a barrier on who can use them.

The majority of these rewards aren’t even intended to be ‘weapons’ but rather tools/objects themed around the rep they come from (archaeology tools, mining picks, gardening instruments, etc). We know the Devs have repeatedly said they want players to be able to express who they want to be in-game and removing some restrictions (in the case of some race/class combos) have already begun.

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:arrow_up: Despite the weapons being themed around gardening, herbalism and cultivation (and being a Herbalist), I was unable to pick any of the rewards because they are ALL weapons a Paladin can't use. Why can't he use a shovel or a rake?

“Ongoing expansion and customization of it is something we are looking to do certainly by Dragonflight, possibly before then is rolling a lot of the white and grey quality items into the transmog system so that you can choose from a lot of simpler, humbler civilian attire-type looks. We want to keep adding in more options for customization and self-expression." - Ion Hazzikostas

With Ion’s quote in mind (which I genuinely appreciate him saying), I think the current state of the renown weapon rewards fails to uphold that line of thinking as it restricts who can use them, despite the vast majority of them intended to be fun/simple/civilian style weapons.

Let’s take a look at the weapon restrictions and see why they’re problematic in their restrictions.

Dragonscale Expedition Rewards:

Although Archaeology isn’t getting a profession update at launch, much of the starting zone of the Dragon Isles is featured around the theme of Archaeology and exploration. With this theme comes a bunch of expedition tools like excavator mallets and picks, brooms, chisels and magnifying glasses. The clear theme behind the weapon is obviously archaeology (and even racially themed to Blood Elves) and the weapons are meant to be less combat-themed and more in line with the theme of the expedition.

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:arrow_up: Pictured above: All of the Cosmetic Weapon rewarded through Renown with the Dragonscale Expedition.

Yet, despite this,many classes can only use one or two of these weapons despite the rewards being themed around the expedition/archaeology while other classes have the entire collection to pick from.

Imagine for a moment you are playing a Blood Elf Mage and you are leaning into the theme of Archaeology for the expansion.

Your professions are Mining and Jewelcrafting and storywise, you are part of the Reliquary who is a part of the Dragonscale Expedition! Now, profession wise, you have full-range access to the new mining pick models via profession equipment that let you crack and chip away at the many ore across the Isles but no sooner do you return to the Dragonscale base camp to pick up some of your new renown rewards only to find: you can’t use the mining pick or the broom expedition models because they’re axes and maces.

You turn to pick up the magnifying glass instead and - nope. Also a mace. Maybe the chisels? Ah, wait, no. You’re wearing a sword and those are daggers.

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:arrow_up: Pictured above: Blood Elf Archaeologist/Miner who happens to be a Mage/Warlock/ Priest or DK/Paladin/DH is unable to wield most of the Archaeology weapons due to weapon restrictions.

You are left with absolutely no rewards from the Dragonscale Expedition Renown track, despite the weapons being fun, cosmetic civilian/adventure based weapons all because Mages can’t use axes or maces or mog their swords into daggers.

2 handed weapon classes (DK/Paladins/Druids are left out from any viable reward from these reputations while casters are left with an incredibly narrow window of viable choices.

This is just one example where the limitations on 1-handed weapons (and 2-handed weapons) demonstrates why these rewards don’t feel ‘good’ despite the models looking amazing and there being PLENTY of options.

Valdrakken Accord Rewards:

Like the Dragonscale Expedition, the Valdrakken Accord offers a lot of cosmetic rewards. In addition to a wide selection of civilian outfits and cosmetic shoulders, they also offer cosmetic weapons that also are very restrictive to who can use them.

Imagine you’re a Monk or a Demon Hunter and like the previous Blood Elf example, you are leaning into the role of a new archetype of character: you are a master chef! You have mastered all the recipes of cooking and you are excited to lean into the class fantasy as an in-game chef operating out of Valdrakken!

Well fortunately for you, one of the first renown rewards in Valdrakken are the “Dragon Cooking tools” that offer two forks…which are classified as Daggers. Whelp, time to retire.

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:arrow_up: Sorry Monks: these aren’t meant for you.

Meanwhile, a Paladin or DK player decides to purse the rewards further along in the renown track. They are a gardener dedicated to their craft. No more hero stuff; they are the Grand Master Herbalist! Through the Herbalism equipment, they will don the Farmers hat and the backpiece filled with flowers, but what about weapons?

“Gardening Tools” are listed and as they make your way to the Head Gardener for the Valdrakken Accord, they see he offers a variety of weapons!

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:arrow_up: Pictured above: A draconic shovel, a draconic digging-hoe, a draconic rake, a draconic hand shovel!

Much to their disappointment, all of the rewards are staves or a dagger. So once again, these rewards provide nothing for you because they’re really restricted in weapon types.

There are a few other examples of really interesting, unique models that are tied to a singular weapon type which excludes some classes but not others.

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:arrow_up: Pictured above: Unique torches, blacksmith tongs classified as daggers, fun off-hands

While I firmly believe that today’s weapon restrictions for transmog purposes are remnants of an archaic age from 2004 where Class Silhouette was important and that a conversation needs to happen on why can’t Priests use swords or Paladins can’t use staves or shamans can’t use Polearms, I do wonder if these cosmetic weapons can be given the same treatment as cosmetic armor.

Cosmetic armor lets everyone, regardless of class, use the armor and grants more freedom in how players present themselves. Many of the rewards in Dragonflight are cosmetic armor, which gives a wide variety of options for helms, back pieces, shoulders and other pieces.

But what if cosmetic weapons did the same and were merely limited by the weapon size (1-handed weapon vs 2-handed weapon)

An example of this come from Shadowlands content, where a flavor weapon can drop from the Kyrian Chests.

The weapon is labeled as “One-hand” and despite using a two-handed mace for an appearance, is equipable in either the main hand or off hand slot regardless of class.

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:arrow_up: Pictured above: A screenshot of my Protection Paladin wielding it in his offhand (no, this is not an edit).

Now while the Javelin is not technically classified as a “weapon”, if this type of classification/enabling exists, can it also work for weapons? Could this allow for ‘cosmetic weapons’ to serve the same purpose as cosmetic armor and let anyone wear the weapon so long as it fit either the “one hand” or “two hand” classification?

This would let all those daggers that are shovel/forks/black smith tongs be usable by 1-hand wielding tanks, casters, monks and more.

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:arrow_up: Why can’t the Pandaren Monk dual-wield forks?!

This would let those mining pickaxes, brooms, magnifying glass be wieldable by nearly every single class, including casters who merely have weapons at their hip as decoration.

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:arrow_up: Why can’t the Blood Elf Miner/Archaeologist use the Blood Elf themed Mining Pick?

This would turn all of those staff rakes/shovels/digging hoes/ centaur spears into weapons wieldable by Paladins, DK’s, Mages, Warlocks, Priests and more.

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:arrow_up: Why can’t the Old Dwarf Gardener Paladin wield a rake or shovel?

Turning these weapons from specified restricted weapons like daggers or maces or axes or staves/polearms opens all of these rewards to most classes.

Alternative Solution:

There is another viable way to go about this as seen in patch 9.2.5 and that’s adding duplicates of the rewards as various weapon types.

Staff:

In 9.2.5, some of the Dark Iron heritage weapons were added to the game and that included a 1-handed axe, shield and a Dark Iron Staff. The staff in question was a massive, mace-like weapon but the staff icon/model were labeled as Staff - the idea was that every weapon in the Dark Iron’s arsenal was heavy and covered in flames, including their caster weapons.

At the time on the PTR, however, this meant that despite it being a very heavy, blunt weapon, it wasn’t usable by Paladins or Death Knights (because of the silly restriction that says they can’t use staves).

Mace:

A few PTR builds later and the weapon was cloned and added as a 2-handed mace which meant every Dark Iron class that could use 2-handed weapons could benefit from this weapon appearance. Warlocks, Mages, Priests and Hunters could wield the staff, Paladins, DK’s could wield the Mace and the other classes could wield both.

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:arrow_up: Pictured above: Same model, same name, two separate weapon types.

Using the above as precedence, the renown rewards could have their models duplicated and flagged as different weapons (the Expedition Excavator flagged as a 1-handed sword, for example) but that would be a huge bloat of weapons.

It may be the easiest, least problematic route and I think it would be a viable way to ensure that most if not all of the cosmetic, civilian weapon rewards were made available to all classes if they couldn’t be flagged as “1-handed” alone.

Building on that possible solution: Ensembles for cloned weapons?

Building off the previous solution is an idea that would introduce the items as “Weapon arsenals” where multiple versions of the same weapon exist in different weapon types.

What if the “Expedition Excavator” wasn’t sold as an item but as an arsenal/ensemble?
Within it contains various weapon types with the same name/appearance. Inside would contain:

  • 1 staff and 1 2-handed axe labelled version of the Pickaxe (upsized to a larger scale

  • 1-handed variations of the weapon, each classified as a 1-h axe, 1-h mace and 1-h sword

  • 1 dagger variation of the pickaxe (scaled down maybe?)

  • 1 off-hand variation so casters can choose to wield it in their secondary off-hand slot while wielding another tool

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:arrow_up: What if instead of the Excavator being labelled as an axe, it's labelled as various weapons so everyone can use it in some form. Larger version for 2-handed classes and smaller for melee/casters

This would be a wide-spread way of ensuring all weapons had various versions (like the Dark Iron weapons) that could be usable by all classes.

This is an expansion with more freedom-of-expression than ever. With all the easing of some Transmog rules, race customization, class/race combos, this could be a huge win in letting players embrace the fantasy they wish to play.

This is the expansion for Crafters and Artisans and Explorers to step into the spotlight and being a Mage who can use a pickaxe to mine ore but not use a pickaxe to transmog seems weird and outdated (2004 weapon restrictions)

I fully realise that this may be an easier problem to fix if weapon restrictions were loosened for Transmog purposes. Ie:

  • Letting Warriors/Hunters/Monks mog their 2-handers to 1-handers

  • Letting Rogues mog their Daggers into literally anything else

  • Letting Cloth Casters use all 1-handed weapons instead of Swords for Mages/Locks only and Maces for Priests only

  • Letting Paladins/DK’s use Staves and letting Clothies/Shamans use Polearms.

  • Letting every Melee class use Warglaives because there’s zero gameplay or lore precedent for them to be locked to 1 class.

But I’ll save that topic for a future thread :slight_smile:

12 Likes

Why was this reposted?

1 Like

I deleted the original post because some information was wrong and alternating between two posts (general and alpha) was a pain

I’ve fixed the info and bringing the conversation back here since a few folks who wanted to comment on Alpha didn’t have access.

That cool?

2 Likes

No need to explain yourself to them. They always have a problem with everything for no good reason and try to play forum police at times.

I understand your information well and completely agree. There is no reason those weapons could not be multiple types.

1 Like

Yesssss! It’s just cosmetic stuff, it would be so nice if it could be used by everyone!

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I feel this thread needs more attention.

1 Like

Agreed!

Trying my best! I posted it here on the General forums, Alpha forums and even on Reddit to try and get the conversation stirring.

Share it with your guild-mates and friends, pass it along!

I’d really like for us to have a more expansive use for transmog! We’re already seeing grey items added to the mix so why not take the extra step! I agree.

I’ve wanted hunters to be able to transmog their 2handers into 1handers for a long while now.

1 Like

ABSOLUTELY

Bring back Dual-wielding Hunters via Transmog!

The devs have stated that yes, class silhouette is important, is in the PRESENT which means, NO, it is not archaic, IT IS A CURRENT IDEAL.

So you can believe what you want but it is not borne out.

Secondly, it is keeping classes unique instead of homogenizing them. (But don’t worry at the rate the Blizzard is pandering to mobile gamers with no imagination or respect for the genre, I am sure this is going to come sooner or later).

Thirdly, it is about the class fantasy. A mage in plate armour does not fit the fantasy and frankly, looks stupid. The only reason Anduin can get away with wearing plate as a priest is because he is not wearing plate as a priest, he is wearing plate as the leader of the Alliance.

For the reasons above.

There, conversation over.

The Devs have only made a comment about class silhouette during a Blizzconline interview in-which I was the interviewee asking about this very topic. This was all before they started removing restrictions and constantly expressing their desire to give players more agency, more freedom and more ways to represent themselves.

Just because the devs talk about it now, doesn’t mean it’s not archaic. They’ve shown an incredible desire to remove many archaic systems and decisions - class race combos was one of them. Transmog rules for shoulders was another.
And in a yet to posted thread, I will clearly outline why Class Silhouette is not important - transmog set lookalikes date back as early as TBC where Warriors could wear Paladin tier, Mages could wear Warlock tier, etc. That, combined with the vast amount of cosmetics in game that don’t require armor - don’t tell me Class silhouette exists outside of Tier gear. It DOES exist for tier sets and sets themed around classes - but a Paladin can easily look like a DK, Warrior or a Warlock if they wanted to which means the silhouette has failed.

Your second point: What about weapon restrictions keeps classes unique? What is unique about a Paladin wielding a Polearm, 2-h axe/mace/sword but suddenly not unique if they wield a staff? Class uniqueness =/= the weapons they use - not when Players are the ones who decide what those weapons look like.

Third point:

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Here’s a mage, clearing wearing Plate armor. Now obviously the armor in question is Heritage armor, but it’s not a stupid look. Now besides that, you miss my point entirely about Class Silhouette. I’m not saying remove armor restrictions - I believe armor class has it’s place in the game. But tell me the fundamental difference between a Mage having a sword at his belt vs having an axe or a mace? There isn’t one - they don’t use the weapons, so why does that matter?

What if said Mage transmogs one of the Heritage sets to look like they’re wearing full Leather - what then? Where’s the Class fantasy there when they look like a Warlock or a Warrior of the Light?

What is so damaging to your vision of class silhouette that means a Polearm breaks the Shaman identity or having a Priest wield a 1-handed sword shatters the illusion they are a Priest

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Can you identify this class by their Class Silhouette?

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What about this class?

I can see you approached this thread from a pretty negative POV - you came flying in with aggression and a dismissive attitude - you made that clear when you made the “mobile gamer” quip so no matter what argument I show, no matter how many examples of class silhouettes being rendered pointless and a thing of the past - you’ve made your mind up.

You won’t agree and so be it!

2 Likes

Bumping this thread a little since it’s been a bit. A few builds have gone by and the renown weapons still feel bad on some classes. The difference in rewards between some classes is quite noticeable and it feels not so good especially given the rewards aren’t “Weapons” but “Civilian/adventurer” gear.

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This not being usable by a mage or warlock who also happens to be a miner is silly.
Instead of adding this beautiful cosmetic “Archaeologist Excacator” as a single weapon, have it added as 4-5 variants:

  • dagger (This lets casters and rogues use)

  • 1h mace/sword (Tanks, casters, Shamans, Monks, DH)

  • polearm (Plate DPS, Druids, Hunters, Monks)

  • staff (Casters)

Hello, I see you posted a thread about cosmetics. Maybe it’s just me but a lot of these things look really bad, haha!

Thanks for your post and have a great day!

The models look bad?

Why - because they’re not huge fancy shiny weapons and more rustic ones?

I don’t follow!

Have a great day!

I literally just want mages to be able to transmog their staff into any 2h weapon. We don’t even use it in combat lol.

TL;DR

I hope the Transmogrification system changes so that we are not changing the appearances of specific items but rather the slots; so you can set outfits and switch between them and keep the appearances even if you change equipped items as well as loosening the rules on weapon transmogrification.