I’m honestly not a big fan of Mind Spike/Dark Ascension as it directly conflicts with a strong dot design. I’m not averse to it coming back, but Mind Spike shouldn’t occupy such a central portion of the tree. DA is also underpowered in its current version.
IMO, DA should be a capstone talent that would force you to choose between a DA build and a Voidform build, and DA should be buffed considerably. Mindspike, Mind Melt, and Surge of Darkness would be talents immediately preceding/pathing to DA.
The choice node of Idol of C’Thun/Yogg would be much better placed where Mind Spike is now, since they are more about flavor than throughput.
I Do think that mindspike should not remove dots.
It would make this Spell feel smoother and as a result, give a much better gameplay experience in today’s modern wow.
I also think surge of darkness should not be used as a bandaid fix for this.
DP needs to do more damage and feel more impactful. Maybe make SHadoworbs help DP do this.
DA should also be instant cast, no reason for that 1.5 sec cast.
I would aslo argue that a lot of the talents in the 20+ section are too heavy on points and not as fun as the center Rows. THey don’t feel as impactful and intresting.
I’m really pleased with this recent rework of shadowpriest. As a pvper, one of my main concerns is the cast time for dark ascension. In cataclysm it was never a casted spell (it was probably called something different, but same mechanic). I don’t even think it was on global. In pvp currently casters that need to actually “cast” perform very poorly. With the addition of even more interrupts in the game, the last thing we need is to cast to receive one of our major offensive buffs. Warlocks don’t cast dark soul, ret paladins don’t cast wings, why should we cast dark ascension?
Either way these changes are all really exciting. Another note is that with all of these new ways to deal single target damage, it seems like insanity is kind of losing it’s value. I’ll have to test how much damage from a match actually comes from DP, but I imagine that these other ways of bursting (mind spike/mindblast combos, lingering insanity, mindbender, painbreaker/whatever build you might be playing) will amount to more production in the arena. Maybe they could introduce another insanity spender or simply make devouring plague feel more meaningful (It was repetitively nerfed throughout shadowlands)
Dark Archangel.
It was instant cast. I’ll be money that Dark Ascension will become instant cast. Hopefully off the global as well just like DA was in Cata.
Yup, agreed. It’s becoming a problem that needs to be addressed. I think we need less spells that give “Resource” and give more “resource” when they do.
Like Mind Blast should give like 20-30 insanity.
Shadow Word: Death gives 20-30 insanity with x2 amount from double taps at sub 20%.
Then Shadow Crash, Void Torrent and Mind Bender and Idol of C’Thun procs.
Other then that, everything else should not grant insanity. That means Maddening Touch and Auspicious Spirits needs to be changed a bit.
That would mean we can actually build up for a less often used but more bursty DP or Mind Sear.
This is basically reverting back to pre-Legion Shadow. The spec should evolve, not regress. Quit trying to impose your ideals on the spec when it doesn’t need it.
Not sure if you noticed, the new talent tree resembles more Pre Voidform era. So it makes sense to have our resource generation resemble that as it worked well in that era.
You cant be seriously thinking the current insanity and DP spender is in a good spot right now are you?
From what it appears, Devouring Plague and its insanity cost compared to the damage it deals is very funky. Seems like with the way the rest of the new talent tree is panning out, Devouring Plague seems like a button you don’t really want to press that often. So then the question becomes… If I am insanity capped, what do I do when I want to Mind Spike things down? That becomes an awkward dance around resource and dot management.
Possible solution…
Remove Insanity entirely…
Make all abilities cost nothing or cost mana. With the Shadow Orb talents, THOSE can be made to act like Cata orbs in that they amp up Mind Blast, Mind Spike and Devouring Plagues damage. Each spell would consume all Shadow Orbs for amplified damage.
This would then feel good as you can focus on no dot burst window and then go back to dot window and weave back and forth without feeling like you are doing something wrong with capped insanity. Oh, This can work with Mind Sear as well in that Mind Sear consumed all orbs to do giga damage… Or consumes 1 orb per tick of damage.
Outside of Consuming Shadow Orbs… all abilities cost mana (or the ones that should cost mana) and we get mana back via Masochism from Shadow Word: Death feedback, popping Dark Ascension, Dispersion, Vampiric Touch mana battery buff again.
Perhaps not enough time for DF. But something to consider moving forward.
Which is what my suggestion is getting at.
But this suggestion is a major rework as you need to find and replace so many spells to remove the insanity interaction and then figure out the correct mana cost if it even needs one.
They already have the Shadow Orbs concept at least brewing.
They already have the issue where we have too much insanity for Devouring Plague.
They need to do something… what that is I am not sure. But My idea cleanly separates out all our BID damage abilities to not conflict with each other. Because you can still cast each one as you like with Mana… but they will be empowered with Orbs if you want big damage. So you don’t have to worry about not being able to cast the spell or figuring out a way to dump your insanity for something before you want to build more.
If this is the way to MoP dp, I’m on board. There’s still too much insanity available in that breakdown, but it’s close. 20 insanity mind blast or swd with a 60 insanity cost on dp would give us the WoD 5 orb style.
Absolutely. Regress to progress ellipsis! Bring back that which is loved and then worry about iterating into the future once that which we lost is restored.
I don’t.
I want something new. Use the old as a guide and improve what was changed before. There was a reason why it was changed. I want something new entirely.
The old is what is causing a lott of issues right now.
Change doesn’t have to be Drastic. It can also be subtle. I think that’s something people don’t understand. Not everything old has to change in a HUGE way to create something new.
Absolutely this. Catas design needing to be modernised is my biggest issue with the tree. The fact bliz said in their reveal it was going to be modernised and every talent that references is it is a rip of spell data written over a decade ago feels incredibly disingenuous.
That’s precisely what happened from WoD to Legion. They turned the spec upside down and inside out.
I find it interesting that whatever metrics blizzard has at hand… they clearly made a design decision as we can see in the new talent trees.
Maybe no one on the team wanted to deal with Voidform?
Maybe with the poor reception of the previous talent tree they wanted to go in a more tried and true direction?
Maybe their internal data suggests not many Shadow Priest players compared to pre Voidform?
Maybe they just have no interesting ideas that can fill the tree with Voidform
Whatever the case is, we are here now. I highly doubt a small handful of voices on the Priest forums was the deciding factor in this new direction. If anyone seriously think that’s the case then I got a bridge to sell ya lol.
I mean given everything they added has existed at some point in the last 10 years I wouldn’t be surprised if they didnt have any interesting ideas at all. It’s messy nostalgia bait, but it’s at least got some diversity for it, and if they do modernise it could lead to something good.
Somewhat rich from someone who claimed their ideas inspired talents on the tree.
I think its to early to say what they are leaning on to. This is our first real iteration since its alpha release. I think they are more of testing the waters and seeing feedback
I wouldn’t be surprised if everything changes again due to our feedback.
But One thing I want Blizz to know
Make something new. put everything into one cohesive theme.
Don’t leave it as a jumbled mess with talents conflicting with each other, playstyles conflicting with each other.
Be Bold and unyielding. Don’t fear backlash because that’s part of the process when expressing your creativity. And Be adaptable, and willing to evolve/change.