I think this is very unlikely to happen.
Maybe, but if it did. Would it solve the issue at hand? I think so.
Meaning I think a couple of talents have the capability to fix the issue. I just think we need to wait and see.
Go ahead and report the findings, I am just saying that I don’t think its that difficult to fix.
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I mean they do, but what you’re really saying is increase the damage bonus of dark ascension from 20% to 120%
It was an example.
They can also just say it benefits from Mastery. But I personally think that is a boring fix. I like the idea of using Cata style Orbs to amp up Mind Blast and Mind Spike.
I think doing it outside of cooldowns is a nice fun proc / buff moment and then inside Cooldowns that can be less proc based and more guaranteed to an extent.
Again, the point is that I think its a simple fix with either the Talent Dark Ascension itself or using the Shadow Orb talents.
Meaning I think the way Mind Spike works is fine with it stripping dots.
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I honestly haven’t said it wasn’t, I’ve just said that dots in DF shadow have an actual downside to not being applied besides just ‘doesn’t have dots on it’ and that needs to be compensated for, likely mechanically, within the tree.
I know you haven’t, but this conversion started on that premise before you joined in.
So my stance was that Mind Spike is fine. It worked in Cata and I can see it working just fine now without much adjustments needed.
I think the Foundation is now laid out and clear to see. Just tweaking is needed imo.
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I personally think it needs far more than that, but for people who do arenas and random BGs it’s probably very solid.
And maybe that is where I see this primarily from.
I did Raid Cata in Firelands and Dragon Soul purely because I wanted the Leggo staff for PvP so I can nuke really hard lol. So that’s my stance and background and why I see what I see in the talents lol.
Indeed, and I didn’t mean that in a disparaging way. I was also only raiding for RBG gear in cata, and played hundreds upon hundreds of battlegrounds throughout MoP and WoD. I’m just looking at surging darkness mind spikes and thinking that because of the mastery that’s going to do nowhere near the damage it used to on off targets.
Obviously I’ve been PvEing way more the last two expansions, but I do have concerns and experience with both.
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So what about this?
-
Shadow Orbs
Your Shadow Word: Pain and Mind Flay have 5% chance to generate a Shadow Orb each time they deal damage. Max 3.
Your Mind Blast and Mind Spike consume all Shadow Orbs and deal [15% of mastery] more damage per Shadow Orb consumed. -
Harnessed Shadows
During Dark Ascension or Voidform, Your Mind Blast and Mind Spike deal damage as though they consumed 3 Shadow Orbs.
Take that 15% mastery number and adjust as need imo. I don’t see a problem here.
The new iteration of the shadow tree definitely has my attention.
I like seeing talents that interact with our base mechanics in new ways. From what I have seen so far on the forums, it appears that Painbreaker’s Psalm is not viewed too favorably. I would like to see how the following combination of talents play together:
- Death and Madness
- Twist of Fate
- Misery
- Tithe Evasion
- Pain of Death
- Pain Breaker’s Psalm
- Lunacy
It seems like the combination of these talents and other damage modifier talents would provide a very powerful execute rotation:
Vampiric Touch → Shadow Word: Death x2 → Devouring Plague
I just wonder how quickly we would kill ourselves even with Tithe Evasion. Painbreaker’s Psalm even adds some burst damage outside of the execute window every 20 seconds along with an insanity boost. Reapplying our DoT spells more often is not that big of a deal because of Misery.
This is the only way it would work, and I’d go as far as to say it’s terrible design to say ‘we made a talent so that when you lose your mastery entirely on a target you can do more damage to it anyway’
It is so much better and more elegant to just have your mastery be a passive increase to damage and not compete with your CD windows than to buff a CD window largely to make up for your passive loss in mastery.
Again, if our mastery was just multihit dots it wouldn’t matter. But our mastery plays off our entire kit nowadays, and I would absolutely hate this as a solution. It’s as band-aidy as Searing Nightmare was.
But its not required.
You don’t have to use Mind Spike.
If you choose to get it, you don’t have to use it instead of something like Mind Flay. You can use it only on its procs.
Its not a band-aid, its a choice.
I see the Mastery effect talent Havoc Demons Hunters get, it opens up a lot of their abilities to do Chaos damage. Be it wrong or bad design, they are already entertaining the extension of Mastery to other abilities.
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I’m a bit confused on the need for two separate topics for basically the same kind of feedback.
Also, if it’s about beta exclusive stuff: the beta testers should have access to the private forum sections.
Wish I could post my feedback there lol.
Maybe soon I hope lol.
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This is naive when it comes to the state of the game at any point in its lifetime, honestly. It’s central to the tree and pretty much necessary for Psychic Link (A big portion of our AoE now) If a damage option is better than the rest, 95% of players are going to take it. Mind Spike is not the problem, especially with Surge of Darkness. Dark Ascension is the problem because inside of its window you’re going to have to mind spike and eventually consume your dots, thereby trading a % damage increase for a smaller % damage increase in a timed window - so reapplying your DoTs is wasting CD time. Your solution to this is to essentially buff that smaller % damage increase to preserve nothing in the playstyle besides re-casting your DoTs post-DA instead of just allowing them to co-exist.
The difference with the Havoc DH is that their talent is strictly a bonus - not a way to cover up what is an unintuitive cooldown. It might make them stack mastery more which they currently avoid like the plague because they don’t deal enough chaos damage for it to be worth it.
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The intent is in the first post. The other thread has over 1900 posts based around the first talent tree iteration. As the trees significantly changed, i felt a new thread would be better to focused feedback and for overall readability.
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It worked in Cata… No issues. Its 1 GCD… maybe 2 if you have insanity to cast DP.
You are overthinking this. We recast dots all the time. Reapplying dots after your burst window is FINE.
It only gets weird on single target when you have insanity to spend. But imo you should dump your insanity prior to using DA and then if tuned properly, you will cast VT and SW:P with 1 GCD (Misery) and then DP at the conclusion of DA and then Mind Flay or Mind Spike if proc.
Its really not that big of an issue.
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Cata had a completely different mastery, we’ve been over this?
I’m not saying it isn’t. I’m saying that the burst window is made worse right now unless you shoehorn in a way to make up for that burst window’s loss. That’s not good design IMO, that’s just overcomplicating the tree. If you want to talk about ‘choice’ and say mind spike isn’t necessary, then I’d just say your new version of Shadow Orbs isn’t necessary, and if I don’t want to play with them, but I like the concept of DA, what then? I just take a hit to damage?
The simplest solution is oft the best, and there’s absolutely nothing lost by allowing mind spike to not consume DoTs in the DA window specifically except for an extra cast of Vamp Touch/DP at the end of DA - I don’t know why you’d be so married to that specific cast that you’d say it shouldn’t exist.
If Mind Spike and Mind Blast were granted the Mastery benefit in that window. Then they would either hit really hard and so outside that window they need to be nerfed to balance things… creating the problem of hills/valleys once again.
If Mind Spike and Mind Blast didn’t hit hard during that window (Because your dots are still doing damage) then they will hit even less outside of that window.
The only way to make them impactful is to force a change of playstyle for that DPS window.
If you don’t want that, then I think that’s where Voidform should step in and be a (Choice) talent to compete with Dark Ascension.
I want Mind Blast and Mind Spike to hit hard in and out of DA. But while your in DA… DOTS can NOT be active if you still want Mind Blast and Mind Spike to REALLY hit hard.
Thus the separation imo is required to retain the impactful feel.