Dragonflight Alpha: Feral Druid Talent Feedback

Given the lack of Blue response for Druids, and specifically Feral, I wanted to give my thoughts as someone who has played this class and spec as their main for 17 years. This is coming from someone who clears a few bosses on mythic every tier, gets KSM every season, and dips their toe into PvP from time to time (generally around 1800 rating). I’ll also be giving thoughts from a more casual or Feral-noob perspective as well to provide a comprehensive reflection on the spec so far as it stands in this early Dragonflight alpha.

Pathing and Placement

On the spec tree, most AoE abilities are on the left side of the tree, with single target being on the right side. Despite this, there are the following problems:

  1. Predator/Circle/Apex/Savage Roar are all used on AOE or cleave yet are on the single target side of the tree.
  2. Brutal slash, while on the ST-side where it belongs, must be taken to continue picking up AoE talents that are placed on this side for some reason (as discussed above). But taking this replaces swipe, which is your main AoE filler and works with several talents, while Slash doesn’t.
  3. Bloodtalons is one of the hallmarks of the spec, but it’s deep on the left-side instead of being centered (both vertically and horizontally).
  4. Prowl/Shred/Frenzy talents are used on ST but placed on the AoE side.
  5. Why are SI and Infected wounds (ineffective ST slow on our rake) so far down in the spec tree which, should focus on throughput? The only change to Feral tree this week was literally swapping their places on the tree (outside of renaming Cat-Eye)

Bad Node Investments

Feral has a staggering number of 3-point nodes, or 4 points if you include the ability that unlocks it and work with the 3-pointers. (Five total). Many of these talents could easily be a 1- or 2-point node and not lock us in so hard compared to other spec trees. So, when you combine this problem with the pathing/placement issues as previously discussed, it really limits what talents and builds you can try due to abilities being placed haphazardly AND having to invest numerous points to barely move down the tree.

The Build-a-Berserk concept was interesting at first. However, in practice, it only hinders the spec. The problem is they took one of the worst 3-minute cooldowns in the game and split it into 4 different berserks (2 are baseline effects, one is the SL legendary, and the other is Incarnation, a talent no one has taken for years for Feral). Instead of one talent giving us our baseline (and very weak) 3-minute CD and using other nodes to give it unique or strong effects (current 4 piece is nowhere to be seen), it dilutes what is arguably the worst major offensive CD in the game. And Incarnation is one of our nodes where you can pick that or convoke, and it doesn’t even have a damage component to it?

Lack of Creativity

This is a big one for me. Every single Feral talent is something that is either baseline or from SL, including terrible abilities and effects. The only new thing is our capstone on the Feral side of the class tree, and it is so horribly useless you would never take it. I understand not everything can be brand new, but at least a FEW new options would have been cool.

Utility and QoL

Why can’t we battle-rez from cat form anymore with predatory swiftness procs? I have no idea why they removed this, and kept it removed even after giving us the ability to soothe/de-curse/hibernate from cat form. It’s ridiculous that Boomkins and Bears can rez from their forms, but we must shift out AND hard cast-it. Similarly, why do we swap into bear form when using Incap roar when we are already in an animal form. It forces us to shift back into cat and waste a GCD for no reason. We also don’t get Treants still.

Right now, with the class tree, we must invest 9-12 points into the right-hand side just to get Innervate, the only utility we are getting access to as Feral with this tree. Whereas Boomkin/Resto only need to invest 7 points to get kick and/or maim as their new utility. This means that we must give up to half of the current utility we have had for years, just to get one ability.

Mark of the Wild coming back is great, but multiple specs are getting new/old party buff back (warrior, rogues, evokers, etc.). Boomkin have their aura for the group. Why can’t we get Leader of the Pack back as our unique party buff? We’ve had it all SL as a PvP talent, and it used to be a baseline party buff for our spec. These issues combined further the community issue of wanting to take a Boomkin over a Feral. They are ranged and have more utility, so nothing really changes here.

Revert the sound changes from last expansion. I sound like an alien spaceship going nuts rather than a cat.

Bleeds vs. Bite

Feral has suffered the last several expansions from Blizzard not knowing what they want the spec to be. Feral always had a few traits that made it a unique spec, which is why many Feral’s are un-happy with the current direction. We used to be the complex, ST specialist who used melee dots. The last few expansions, we have become Shred/Bit dependent, and our bleeds have mattered less and less every expansion and every patch since mid-way through Legion. This also means that the complexity has been greatly diminished.

Feral is honestly the easiest it has ever been to play right now. I don’t mind having the bite/shred option for people who prefer that playstyle, but it’s not like the option exists to play a dot heavy spec. Necrolord, with its adaptive swarm, doesn’t equal Convoke and bite’s power. Plus, we don’t even have top ST damage anymore. Both playstyles should be available, but the more complex bleed-focused one should do more damage at the cost of being harder to play. Maintaining and snapshotting bleeds has been a hallmark of the spec. Now we just feel like a scuffed Assassination Rogue.

The one thing I won’t budge on is Saberooth. It is one of the primary reasons the spec has strayed so far from what makes it unique. Either completely re-work it or just remove it from the game. My top single target damage filler shouldn’t be shred, and my top single target damage finisher shouldn’t bite. Bite having the Sabertooth effect baked in during execute was good in the past.

Conclusion

Overall, blizzard needs to give people a reason to play/bring this spec to raid and dungeons. We are just average at everything, with no unique or stand-out utility compared to other melee or our ranged DPS spec. Many long-time Feral’s don’t like how the spec has played out the last few expansions. We went from being the complex, dot-based ST specialist that topped meters if played well (at the expense of AoE) to a spec that is just kind of puttering around, chasing its own tail. Meanwhile several specs can spec and do great ST, Cleave, and AoE damage. With Mythic+ becoming one of the three main pillars of end-game content, it’s unacceptable that some specs just outright can’t do AoE damage for keys (or ST for raids) compared to others that can do both (plus good cleave).

We had the first tree released and have yet to have any Dev communication. Meanwhile hunters have had several posts and iterations. Even shadow priests got a “We know it’s bad, we’re working on it” post. Just getting the equivalent of “we hear you” from a Blue post would at least be SOMETHING.

As it stands, unless major overhauls are made to Feral and our upcoming talent trees, I’ll be giving up on this spec I’ve mained for over 15 years for greener pastures.

TLDR: Feral bad and it makes me sad, please fix.

Reddit link for those interested in the discussion going on there: https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/whfxqa/dragonflight_alpha_feral_talent_tree_feedback/?sort=confidence

14 Likes

Bump because this is well thought out and feral needs love

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Genuinely sad.

Druid always seems to have a point where it excels more than other classes in most expansions (most), and they typically get a ton of love.
There’s always a point when they’re the best caster, best tanks, or best healers, but never the best melee.
Feral is never shown the same kind of love other classes are, or even the same love the other Druid specs are.

Bumping for awareness because I want to see more sabretooth kitties in my groups.

2 Likes

Great summary, OP. This section in particular is where I had a strong reaction to the talent tree. I only just got around to trying to put together a feral build on wowhead’s calculators yesterday, and I could not believe how many talents I’d had to skip by the end. It felt even worse than survival hunter.

It still feels like a first draft of a talent tree, and I hope that is the case. Some of the later trees have been excellent. Such as the warriors. So I really hope they have some big changes coming to it soon. I know they can do better than this.

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I believe there were couple times where they were considered the best, but unsurprisingly, they got nerfed fast when they were (it even happened in PTR with the tier set in SL).

Meanwhile Hunter gets 12+ blue posts in their alpha feedback while Druid has gotten none when we have probably the worst tree to come out of the previews, and they arguably always have a high tier/meta spec in their pocket to top it off.

3 Likes

You think Druids have it bad?
Hunters haven’t had feedback all day.

Here is an excellent player-made tree that fixes alot of the issues myself, and other Ferals have, with the tree. Credit to Foresight, who created it while also using community feedback in the Dreamgrove Feral Discord.

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No CC member have linked this to their forums

So here is a bump from me

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As someone who’s mained druid since I started in wrath. I absolutely hate the new taken trees. Takes too much away from us just to have it drip fed back in worse forms.

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Bump for visability.
Come on blizz at least give us a simple “We hear you” or SOMETHING…we’re tired of being ignored. We get it, not many people play feral. But us that do LOVE the spec and just want it to mean something

2 Likes

I would bet that even less people played Survival Hunter and even they became a meta spec in Mythic+ now.

Bump. Feral main since Wrath launch. Still waiting for some Blizzard communication on this spec. Give us something that at least lets us know you understand the community wants some change.

2 Likes

Amazing feedback from OP. I just started going through the Druid talent trees today on alpha and it was the most unfun and frustrating experience (especially with feral tree). You covered my thoughts precisely and much more.

I’ve mained Feral Druid since WotLK and was forced to swap to Balance in BFA for progression (More utility and damage). I was excited talent trees were coming back, hoping it would fix the issues with Feral and the inability to have hybrid builds. Much to my dismay, the Druid class and spec trees feel like they were built by someone who has never played Druid and placed talents by shooting darts at a board while blindfolded.

Regarding the ST and AoE split sides:
I couldn’t tell which side of the tree was meant for AoE or ST. They were scattered everywhere, but that shouldn’t matter. We shouldn’t have linear separate sides for AoE and ST and instead should be able to flow freely between all of them. We already have a limited number of points available to push us into making smart choices. So why add boring forced paths only to give us the option of “left” or “right”? It defeats the whole purpose for everyone’s desire to bring back talent trees: More personalized hybrid options.

Please, Blizzard Devs, read OP’s feedback and other posts regarding Druid trees and give us some blue posts. They were the first to come out, the ones with the most criticism, and yet, they are the least responded to with updates. Druids everywhere are scared :scream_cat:.

I believe the word on the street is that the druid + priest dev has recently left blizzard. Which would make sense with the lack of changes.

If true i am a little less doomer about the horrific tree because someone is going to be picking it up soon enough.

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Looking at the Warlock and Warrior tree, you can tell creativity went into both of the class trees. With Warlock it feels like I’m overwhelmed with interesting talents to spend but with Druid it’s like “Meh, why would I ever want to pick X over Y.”

Hoping they’ll flesh it out more because I’m enjoying Boomie and wanna main it in DF with lock second.

2 Likes

They aren’t going to read this, they have alpha forums.

This is also the case with Evoker.