What kind of crazy talk is this?! Everyone knows the interwebs are srs bzns.
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Also, hereâs a different way to look at the issue. Why are things like trading loot and ML desirable? Because loot is so scarce and impossible to earn deterministically.
The problem can be obviated almost entirely by adding a system where:
- When killing bosses, members earn currency that can eventually be used to buy tier with
- The raid leader can set up to some number of players as âloot priorityâ in the raid UI that then game automatically routes loot to
This fixes three problems:
- Players feeling short changed for walking away empty-handed several raid nights in a row (every run pushes them further toward getting pieces, regardless of drops)
- Lets guilds prioritize important raid members for drops without the problems that come with master looter
- It returns some of the thunder than M+ stole from raids; while M+ is faster, more convenient, and more ad-hoc, raids are more deterministic
Nope. Nope. Nope. Over ruled.
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#2 Allows Leverage over people, Instant decline.
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No more than ML already does. Itâs just a formalization of what already happens with ML, and this one comes with the advantage of UI indicators of whoâs loot prioritized so the whole raid knows about it and thereâs no surprises when bosses die.
That leverage always exists.
A raid leader can just bench someone for the entire tier and they donât get any loot at all. Ion canât protect you from everything in the world that might be a negative experience. Sometimes you gotta be an adult and make sure you join the right guild.
My guild already uses RCT. Itâs an addon that can automatically tell if an item is tradable. When I loot an item, the loot council can immediately see if I am eligible to trade it, and if so it will be immediately put up for people to vote on.
If the loot council decided to give that item to someone else, and I simply refused to trade that itemâŠwell that would be the last item that I ever looted in my guild.
Pretty much every Mythic guild operates this way, as it is the most efficient way to progress. My situation is not unusual and my guild is not toxic. Never have we had any drama over lootâŠpeople just trade their crap to whoever our loot council tells them to.
They would still get screwed though. If PLNR existed, every mythic guild would just be ML, and all members would be expected to participate and trade all loot to the council. All this would do is increase the frequency of disputes amongst guilds. By placing the item in a random personâs inventory, you reinforce the idea that the item is theirs to do with what they pleaseâŠwhich is NOT the case in any progression based mythic guild.
You would be setting people up to fail, and they would be submitting tickets and crying on the forums when they got lobbed from their guild and not understanding why.
If you place the item on the bosses corpse, it reinforces the idea that the loot belongs to the team as a collective, and you donât feel robbed of an item like some people do when they are forced to trade gear away.
If you believe the loot belongs to the team and want to use DKP or a council or whatever to decide who gets itâŠput the settings on ML and place the loot on the bosses corpse.
If you believe that loot belongs to the individual, and you donât want anyone else having authority or control over who your loot goes toâŠput the settings on PL and place the loot into peopleâs inventory.
We donât have ML now, We arenât advocating for itâs return either, While there are some vocal âProâ ML people around the vast majority are happy with personal loot.
And the Vast Majority of that Vocal Minority are happy with Personal loot with Trading restrictions removed.
There for neither your system needs to be implemented nor does ML and since we donât currently have ML in the game (A system that inherently allows Leverage) why would we opt for one that does?
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Iâd suggest you run down to your local pharmacy and get some estradiol pills.
NO, that system was used and abused horribly back then. What if someone needs a week off? Less DKP for not showing up because of RL, causing loot issues and that person falls behind.
I donât see much of a need for ML personally but thought it was worth trying to come up with something that makes more parties happy.
If nothing else, there absolutely should be a badge system in raids again so thereâs no such thing as walking away from a raid completely empty-handed.
Who is ninjaing from their own guilds? What guilds are you idiots joining? What is going on here?
Sure, and for most guilds it would be a complete non-issue where the system is just a minor inconvenience.
However, there will inevitably be a LOT of guilds where the expectation is players trade loot and for whatever reason players refuse. This will result in a CRAPSTORM of drama and tickets and cringe QQ threads on the forums about âMy guild kicked me because corrupt loot council blah blah blahâ.
Just make the 2 systems and let players choose.
We donât have ML now, We are advocating for itâs return, While there are some vocal âAntiâ ML people around the vast majority are unhappy with personal loot.
Thatâs a 50 DKP minus!!!
It Doesnât, Or atleast it doesnât in a Capacity that Matters under PLNR
ahh i Love this particular one, This is how we know itâs going to be fun, Just JOIN the RIGHT guild, Letâs go back a decade back to the height of my raiding career where i was in an oceanic top 20 team (We kept the Oceanic and US ladders seperate because back then Oceanic people played at 300+ For latency on a good day due to the servers being in the US and Network traffic prioritization)
BC-Wrath, Every guild used one of three systems
EPGP with altered weightings, This screwed over any new member to the team
DKP, Alice has been here with her friends for 4 years? good luck getting anything while they are around because they have DKP to spare for days, Them and their little clique.
Loot Council, My personal favourite see people canât be objective by there very nature people are inherently unable to be 100% objective.
All of these Existed under Master Looter wich had itâs own problem, Being able to Ninja things and that wonât change even if you demand it be 100% guild only no matter how much you apply rules to it.
See Not every raiding guild or Raiding team can actually field a full roster, So if you say âOh itâs guild onlyâ then the guilds that only have 18 or 19 members go to pug, They will DEMAND that pug to join the guild and then keep any loot out of their hands, But if you put a time limit restriction on it implying the person has to be in the guild for X time, The guild just wont raid because they canât stop that pug from getting anything No Win Situation
And for the Rest of the Systems, EPGP, DKP, Councils etc are very easy to skew and screw people over repeatedly, But you can just join the right guild⊠Itâs all on you just research the gu- Oh wait they are all using it rip you fam.
I came from a time and from a team where we kept 3-4 trials in a meatgrinder and we used DKP with the stipulation that trials couldnât roll for priority and whenever a trial got close, We replaced them, As a top 20 regional team we had no shortage of fresh meat and by the time they could get gear there was better trials available to us, We did it constantly it was great.
Except they wont, See the fun thing about what happens when you put the power in the hands of the people itâs a lot harder to screw them over, Instead of just yanking loot or denying loot to people that person can simply turn around and leave with their now owned item and guilds would bleed members a lot easier thus forcing them to play a lot nicer.
At the end of the day, I do the job, I get paid and loot from the boss is payment to be equally distributed amongst all members of the group that killed it Iâm not an american so thereâs no âfree unpaid internshipâ crap here. I certainly wonât be fighting for or allowing a system to return that allowed what the guild i was in used to do in BC-Wrath.
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I was present since cataclysm and I was also present since when Master looter was there and it was just a massacre the loot was pure for ninja and ninja opinion they released Master looter for a reason
If the guild members agree ahead of time that loot is being distributed via LC and then change their mind about trading something it sounds like maybe the players really donât want a ML/LC style guild? I think that would be very telling for how devoted the guild is to such a system.
There is no tickets or anything to change anything in that system. The loot went where it went, and anything beyond that is up to the players.
Not exactly.
I believe the wording in the wowhead article is âNothing specific to announce on Master Lootâ
They arenât committing to having it return, but they havenât ruled it out yet. It reads to me as the devs want to change something, but they havenât decided how to change it yet.
The answer wonât be bringing back ML but rather loosening trade restrictions, Wich is ultimatly the better choice anyway.
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Loosening trade restrictions is basically allowing master looter and a DKP system for those that choose to go that route.
Except it isnât, The agency remains in the players hands, Rather than a singular set of people.