Dracthyr sexual dimoprhism and additional options

Firstly I would like to thank the Department of Anatomy for Veterinary Medicine of the VYY University in Turkey for taking x-rays of sixty different parakeets for these findings.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10766023/#vms31340-bibl-0001
In this paper we can note that the L1 and L7 measurements in Table 1 refer to the width of the cranial position of the ilium, and the distance between the cranial end of the ilium and the caudal end of the pubis on the same side of the pelvis respectively. Next we can note that in Table 4 the L7/L1 ratios are given, with females having an average ratio of 3.35, and males an average of 3.86. This means that the width of the pelvis as compared to its length has a ratio biased more towards width in females, relative to males. Or another way to think about this; if a female’s pelvis were as long(tall) as a male’s it would be 13% wider. This is of course no surprise, as female birds lay eggs. Birds being dinosaurs, the model clade that inspired many features on dragons, are therefore also models for Dracthyr implementation.

Additionally, if you look up guides on how to identify the sex of common lizard pets like skinks, you will be told to look at the width of the hips compared to the body, and the thickness of the tail. Again, unsurprisingly, females will have relatively wider hips and thicker tails.

We can also take a look at some other features on dinosaurs, such as the Southern Ground Hornbill, or Secretary Bird, to see that large, bipedal reptiles have long gorgeous eyelashes. https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2B66K03/the-long-eyelashes-of-a-secretary-bird-2B66K03.jpg and https://d3jf2jipiivcgq.cloudfront.net/c03fd9a07fdcb5faca174fd8beb79cdedb7bb698.jpg
When looking at large warmblooded reptiles we can also see that the scale patterns Blizzard gave to the dragons in Dragonflight are accurate, as reconstructions of integument for the “Sue” T-Rex model have a tough, scaled, yet leathery hide, with the patterns being LESS evident on the belly, just like the dragons from Dragonflight. Yet in Dracthyr, this paradigm is reversed, with the anterior torso having rough, overlapping scales, and the posterior having, although still too large and quite visible, scales that are at least flush with the body.

This is compounded by the decisively problematic bug where female Dracthyr of non-Evoker classes will play male combat and hurt sounds. This has been bug reported many times since Dracthyr were added, here’s one from 2022. Wrong audio with female dracthyr played
Generally, my suggested Dracthyr improvements can be summarized as follows:

A: REALISTIC sexual dimorphism: Give the females wider hips, thicker tails and legs. (outlined above)

B: Realistic non-dimorphic options: eyelashes (outlined above), better jaw and skull shapes similar to the theropod like options seen on dragons in Dragonflight (I know dragons aren’t real, but if you look at Alexstrasza, the head is quite clearly heavily inspired by that of a T Rex, with virtually identical overall proportions and layouts, excluding the horns.), better scale options like those found on large warmblooded reptiles in real life, such as smooth options with diamond scale patterns, like the actually very representative dragon scales found on the new base dragon model from DF.
Also better wing attachments, our wings are literally just glued on, nearly at the center of the spine as well, and not where the most realistic attachment point would be, the scapula, near to the humerus.

C: Transmog

D: Fix bugs regarding the female combat and hurt sounds for non-Evoker classes being incorrectly replaced with the male sounds. Bug NOT present on Evoker class.

Edit: additional materials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbKRtPxDj-k
How to tell male from female skinks, refer to 1:50
https://lucris.lub.lu.se/ws/files/4416984/625055.pdf
Differences in inter-limb length, head size, and weight in male/female Snow skinks.

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god PLEASE the voice lines missing for the evoker too, and the male hurt sounds are present in evoker too.
also hips are nice

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Oooo boy you don’t wanna open this box op

Chad / sigma

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what the hell lol
:cherries:

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I just jumped off some buildings on my female Evoker and she at least plays the correct “hurt” sounds, unlike my holy priest. Crazy the bug has apparently been present since 2022 and not fixed.
Also because we can’t wear clothes, Blizzard NEEDS to give Dracthyr a chubby body type so I can heal in Alterac Valley without freezing to death.

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Oh ok, lol

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Odd, it might just be half working then, I hear it work half the time and half others.

What are they gonna do now? Say something like: “Dracthyr are reptiles so they shouldn’t…! shouldn’t… have visible sexual dim…orph…ism?? Eyelashes?”

AHahahha.

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Your confusing evolution on Earth with evolution on Azeroth. Remember, on Earth, humans are part of the family of Great Apes and evolved from earlier primates. On Azeroth humans evolved from Vrykul who evolved from the Titan forged Iron Vrykul.

Different planet, different rules.

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Yes, however human models in game are quite clearly based on humans in real life. Dragons in game are clearly based on dinosaurs and lizards in real life. Therefore, Dracthyr, who are conglomerates of the five dragon flights and some “mortal strains” should be based on dinosaurs, birds, lizards, and “mortals”

Well Azeroth humans certainly look like humans on Earth but they have made it clear that their evolution rules are different. Same could be said for dragons.

By the way, there are no dragons on Earth and it is only an opinion from various people that dragons in Earth based fiction evolved from dinosaurs. I don’t know of an author who has said that their dragons evolved from dinosaurs.

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The are lizards. You want the males colorful and the females dull colored. Not your deviantart fantasy

I mean, you want realistic.

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Dragons in fantasy are hexapod vertebrates so they just don’t exist in real life, but they do take features from dinosaurs and lizards. The dragons in dragonflight have scales, heads, arms, and feet like those of theropods, and those are what Dracthyr are descended from in the material sense, so they should absolutely portray the realistic differences between males and females of reptiles, just like the humans in WoW portray realistic differences of humans in real life.

Hahah real! Thank you.

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Sure, but so what? They were clear about the evolution on Azeroth being different and just because things look the same, that does not mean they are the same.

Here’s another point. For a long time people thought Dinosaurs were cold blooded lizards but now the consensus is that they were warm blooded birds. Just because things look the same, that doesn’t mean they are the same.

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Great. WoW can stay perfectly consistent then and have a race that is, in lore, not bound by evolutionary constraints, and also follows realistic expectations for their design inspiration. They ought to closely adhere the model of reality, just like they did when creating the Titan and Titan Forged the Vrykul, the Draenei, the dragons, and others.

I JUST started liking Dracthyr…please dont make me start thinking about crap. lol

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Dracthyr are a created race, not an evolved one. Neltharion decided against any sexual dimorphism in the design, therefore it is not present.

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The actual reasons of course were the lawsuits and the time and Blizzard being lazy/scared. The Titan forged are also a created race and they are just humans.

Yeah, I definitely like the overall design more than I used to, them being slim is certainly okay, but there’s so much still to be improved upon.

Irrelevant. Blizzard decided that Neltharion made the two genders identical, therefore they are. That is how Dracthyr were designed, that is how they exist. Period.

Would I have preferred a more traditional mammalian differentiation for the Dracthyr? Yes, but that is not the direction Blizzard decided to go, so that is what they are. No hip alterations are necessary.

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What do you mean by this? I absolutely would not, and that is not what my original post was recommending.

Also source? I want to see where the game explicitly say Neltharion decided to make their Dracthyr forms appear identical for both sexes.