DR discrepancies between BM and Marks

I want to draw some attention to this. Purview is mostly pvp.

Marks gets its spec tree killshot modifiers from killer accuracy and razor frags. BM gets its spec tree killshot modifiers from hunter’s prey. Hunter’s prey is more or less always active because you’ve got the two pets passively, and you are always going to have dire beasts out rotationally. This spec tree modifier also passively makes all of your black arrows cleave. Conversely, marks has to proc deathblow to invoke it’s spec tree modifiers, and also a significant amount of its spec tree value budget is tied to +crit damage, and crit is nerfed in PvP. This makes the value of bell tolls SIGNIFICANTLY higher for BM than marks.

Crows, shadow hounds, and bleak arrows are already significantly more effective for BM than marks. In fact, withering fire is pretty much the only thing in the hero tree that provides much of any meaningful value to marks in PvP. There’s an entire side conversation to be had about how unhealthy withering fire is as a mechanic in the first place, but that’s neither here or there. It still just feels really out of place to me that BM gets to cast black arrow so much more, and that everything in its version of the hero tree is that much more integrated and streamlined into the spec than marks. Design still just kinda doesn’t make sense.

Deathblow in general is also somehow better for BM, since BM procs it off of kill command. BM technically casts kill command twice every time it presses the button, which compounds the base proc chance of deathblow for it. BM gets to cast kill command more often than marks gets to cast aimed shot and rapid fire as well. It really seems like imp. deathblow should give greater values for marks, and that bleak arrows proc chances should be swapped between the specs.

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Are you accounting for marks still doing way more like if we compare it in PvE as an example on ST :
mm - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/tVnT6fvrNXPx8kWg?fight=19&type=damage-done&source=10

48% value from Black Arrow

vs

bm - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yFwMaBbWDfK8Hhc9?fight=19&type=damage-done&source=20
8.7%

Ofc we can add in other damage, but it’s hard to say that black arrow is underperforming for MM compared to BM.

AoE logs are a bit harder to quantify (since most AoE is expected to be in keys and those are a lot worse of 1-1 comparison)

But even in AoE where it looks like MM hunter isn’t “padding” as hard as bm, it’s still performing significantly better :

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ZNFD37LM9jtnJdpA?fight=27&type=damage-done&source=84 vs https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Gx9bR3HYm8QzNKVW?fight=26&type=damage-done&source=15

Most of the point of this post is irrelevant now that the rework has been announced. But this is why I mentioned that pvp is the purview of the post. Pve logs aren’t relevant for a myriad of reasons, but the biggest of which being the difference in the way you’re going to gear a mm hunter for pve vs pvp. Crit being nerfed in pvp takes a significant amount of the value out of the current mm hunter black arrow damage profile.

Did you somehow miss the only post in the thread before you replied? :stuck_out_tongue:

No, but all the propose changes (albeit they were prior to rework announcement) would also have massive effect on PvE.

I think it’s important to remember that the other side of the game exists when asking for things to be reworked / rebalanced, and if i had access to BM vs MM PvP logs i’d use those. (At which point we’d discuss how much total dmg vs pressure / on demand burst is of value and discuss 3s vs solo shuffle vs rated bgs)

Generally speaking tuning in PvP is wildly separated from tuning in PvE. This includes Blizzard having PvP modifiers for just about every ability in PvP and in some cases blatantly altered function on abilities in PvP.

One thing that was definitely true that they validated:

Withering fire was way too random for how powerful it is, and that applied to pve and PvP. So many of the core problems of this original post were fixed with the rework, and withering fire is going to be a much healthier apparatus.