DPS Classes Difficulty

WoW Classic Season of Discovery
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As of now retribution paladin twist edition is the hardest spec to play.
Don’t believe it? Well then explain why Surveilant had to drop an entire seperate article on WoWhead for twisting just so a DPS paladin can grasp the fundamentals of it.

Sure there’s exodin but that is based on consistency over long periods rather than burst which is most people do in raids to kill bosses within seconds or a minute.

Yet retribution paladin isn’t rewarded well enough in terms of damage in AQ (certain bosses amplify this even harder by being multitarget/movement) at all.
We have classes where you simply have to maintain DoTs, (Boomies, SP, FireMage, Warlocks), maintain selfbuffs (shamans lightning shield, warriors 6pc t1 stance dancing, slice n dice rogue, ferals) or just spam abilities (hunters/elemental shaman) topping the DPS charts with low effort gameplay compared to retribution paladins who have to watch a swingtimer and press a button within a 0.4 intervall, 0.2s if you wanted some niche DPS ontop as well whilst having to move on certain bosses.
Are you seriously trolling the rets who twist or what the hell is going on?

There gotta be some real balance changes in favor of retribution paladins if this is gonna go forward into Naxx and beyond, effort should be rewarded, not disencouraged.

edit: same could be applied to ferals.

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SOD PvE balance is trash anyway.

Youre whining about Ret and they do more damage the warriors in AQ LoL

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3

Pick up enhance shaman as a DPS for either DW or 2h and ask your self: How do I beat Warrior tanks at damage?

In short, you cant and need to quit playing Enhance Shamans in SoD unless your a tank.

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Imagine if Twisters put this much effort into making money… :joy:

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I play draconic ret and i don’t twist into SC because we have to many spells to cast that are not rng and judgment CD reduction with set 4 won’t let me a seal twist posibility, weapons are not slower enought still, i would need like a 4.3 minimun.

We need a libram that after some seconds Seal of Command proc with 100% rate.

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where is it written that having a more difficult rotation entitles a class to a higher numeric ceiling for damage?

If you think the spec is too hard, play something else.

inefficient applied effort is never rewarded vs opportunity cost, In fact as a general rule its phased out entirely once more efficient means are developed. insert work smarter not harder meme. Where do you get the notion that it should be rewarded?

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comparing war with ret is some crazy stuff while you actually got buffed.

you mispresenting enhance and say its worse than a prot warrior is some crazy gymnastics.

true :joy:

ever heard of common sense?

who said the spec is too hard? the only satisfaction is running a gambling class to see SoC/SoM/WF/HoJ proc at the same time whilst being 11th out of 21 specs at the 99 percentile in AQ.
Yet rets haven’t seen a buff at all to the avg rets who are even lower on the DPS specs that exist.

There’s not a single thing about maintaining buffs/DoTs and/or spamming abilities that is “efficient”.

Again, common sense, which you seem to lack.

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ever heard of common sense?

yeah, ive heard of it. you are not applying it. ideal outcome from a development standpoint is every dps spec doing the same dps. that is the common sense. the amount of effort being put in by the class is irrelevant if that outcome is achieved. especially given specific fight variability. you not liking seal twisting is a separate issue as playability and fun may be a legitimate argument for playstyle changes but that has nothing to do with numeric ceilings. like your only reasonable ask here is for a buff to exodin playstyle

who said the spec is too hard? the only satisfaction is running a gambling class to see SoC/SoM/WF/HoJ proc at the same time whilst being 11th out of 21 specs at the 99 percentile in AQ.

  1. youre the one citing spec difficulty as a reason to be top dps. if the spec isnt difficult then the input vs reward argument even if it was a good one (which it isnt) is irrelevant
  2. blizzard has stated that they don’t balance around the 99 percentiles but rather the 50 percentiles. but regardless ret is literally the median dps at the 99%. so, if you are using the 99% metric ret is literally the most balanced spec in this phase.

Yet rets haven’t seen a buff at all to the avg rets who are even lower on the DPS specs that exist.

because they don’t really need one. you could argue for like a 10% buff at the 50% looking at the numbers. but again they are the median and are less then a standard deviation from the mean.

There’s not a single thing about maintaining buffs/DoTs and/or spamming abilities that is “efficient”.

you made the argument for them being efficient yourself…they require little to no movement to maintain 100% throughput.

Again, common sense, which you seem to lack.

I don’t think you know the definition of common sense or the word effort.

a person/object/thing applying less effort for the same or greater outcome is rewarded
-a more efficient machine in terms of input effort vs output performance has a longer shelf life and is more desirable
-a company’s goal is to make as much profit as possible with as little effort as possible
-a person applying less effort is less stressed
-biological evolution is driven by effort in terms of energy efficiency

Common sense would dictate wow would follow suit. you should not be rewarded for simply applying more effort it just means you arent being efficient. your goal should be less effort for the same outcome. if you wanna be a speed runner at the 99% reroll is your best option as balance druid is the most efficient for that task.

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Funny how you dodge questions and make up some things I haven’t said nor implied.

yeah, ive heard of it. you are not applying it.

Asking for a mid performing spec to get buffed when other mid performing specs are getting buffed, cough warrior, is not applying to common sense?
It is only the trolls who don’t even understand how simplistic warrior and rogue is compared to the difficulty of feral or ret.
Feral is even worse on the meters than ret paladin in terms of DPS, and people wouldn’t mind seeing that to be buffed.

the amount of effort being put in by the class is irrelevant if that outcome is achieved. especially given specific fight variability.

so that hasn’t been furfilled at all which warrants either nerfing classes that have an easy DPS rotation, such as boomie, affliction/demo lock, rogues and hunters, or buffing slightly underperforming specs and more complicated specs such as enhance/ret/feral.
The ideal outcome should be that every dps spec doing the same / similar dps.

you not liking seal twisting is a separate issue as playability and fun may be a legitimate argument for playstyle changes but that has nothing to do with numeric ceilings. like your only reasonable ask here is for a buff to exodin playstyle

This ain’t true to begin with lmao.
If I were to seriously dislike ST, I would be playing a brainrot spec in form of exodin and then this thread wouldn’t even exist.
Why? Because those easy specs shouldn’t be top to begin with unless you are pugging. Difficult specs should be rewarding towards those who play it, not be near the bottom of the list because Blizzard fails to balance them properly.

blizzard has stated that they don’t balance around the 99 percentiles but rather the 50 percentiles. but regardless ret is literally the median dps at the 99%. so, if you are using the 99% metric ret is literally the most balanced spec in this phase.

Source? Ret is balanced in what way exactly? Because people will disagree with you when less effort should be a top DPS spot compared to more effort being lower than the one that did less. That is just dumb logic and laziness.

because they don’t really need one. you could argue for like a 10% buff at the 50% looking at the numbers. but again they are the median and are less then a standard deviation from the mean.

Yet here we are where elemental got buffed from a 100% increased SP per intellect to 150% or warriors getting buffed. They were both median as well.

rest of post is troll so

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That’s the whole point, a high skill ceiling should correlate with high damage ceiling. Otherwise it isn’t worth doing even if the playstyle is enjoyable when one is seeing another performing just as well while spamming one button.

Granted, you seem completely unable to understand this at all so :person_shrugging:

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no. I understand what you are saying i just disagree on the premise that there “should” be a correlation as you presented. The development goal as described by blizzard in the past was to have everyone preforming between -/+ 5% of the mean. which im more inclined to agree with. development “should” be focused on maximizing fun through providing as much choice and variety in terms of complexity with viable outcomes.

as complexity relating to fun that is subjective to the person (some people like many buttons, some do not, some like ramping damage, some like burst, etc). so, prioritizing any one type of playstyle based on a mechanical complexity criterion is just choosing winners and losers amongst the player base. In your example if you prioritize complex rotations for a higher ceiling then you alienate the player base that likes simpler rotations and thus the needle doesn’t move, and you just have a new set of winners, losers, and whiners. further if you subscribe to that paradigm like the OP then my response is tough excrement blizzard decided to prioritize simpler rotations as bulk sentiment is going to be a larger development driver then your niche paladin subset of playerbase. and blizzard have been pretty open about this. their stated goal was for average players to make it through all the content…average being the mean or the 50 percentile which paladin numbers happen to sit perfectly in the middle of the normal distribution curve and are in fact balanced as far as numerical outcome. If you don’t like that either advocate for less complexity or reroll to something that you’ll enjoy more. so that also means if you’re only defining fun by looking a top 1% you need to do what the top 1% does and follow the FOTM rather than stick to one class.

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Warrior in SOD have received 0 Buff and are legit the worst melee class with enh.

What are you smoking.

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He’s a ret player bro. He has no concept of the game. Warrior I believe is fine. I think other DPS should be brought down tbh. However this lad saying ret is hard is goofy. No sod class is hard. Just let him rant about how “trash” ret is.

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Ignore him, hes a bad player, constantly getting rekt on LF EU. Go to eu forums he whines there 24/7 about shamans

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Warriors asking to be buffed when their rotation is adding HS spam to every ability as a macro. Did you expect to have a simplistic rotation with HS spam in every ability macro and top DPS like in classic with how easy your rotation is against something complex like retribution paladins or ferals, ferals which I might add are worse than warriors.
You and that lock are delusional and lack any kind of understanding for giving effort vs getting results.

16

CA Twisting is very punishing in AQ with all the movement and such

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17

“Hardest” WoW spec rotation is like saying the most difficult infant to cage fight. There is nothing that is difficult. Period. Some are slightly more inconvenient than others but that is it.

Stop whining and man up. You picked Ret knowing full well the hard on this community has for the mind numbing boredom of seal twisting, as stupid as it is. You don’t get special treatment because you chose the path. You can walk it or choose another.

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Sounds like you have a lot of time on your hands if you played every spec in this game to make that call.