People need to stop downplaying +20’s. We get it, they have mad skillz. Not everyone is a perfect key runner.
Thx for coming to my ted talk.
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I just accepted that I’m a bad player. Am breaking into the 10’s and who knows maybe 15-16’s but I see that as my comfort. 
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Yeah. I have been pretty tired of it. It’s a big accomplishment to reach 2500 every season for many people, myself included. I don’t play with people with mad skillz, I pug. It is disheartening to see people in the top percentiles who clear 23s or 25s or whatever downplaying the mass majority of everyone who can’t.
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Man it’s unreal how easy this game is! Yesterday i timed a +31 Black Temple with only 3 people and no tank! Baby game.
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It just depends on the context, really. High, medium, low are all relative terms that need a baseline to make sense. Some baselines make more sense than others, but it’s an inexact science.
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I don’t think it’s downplaying if you can time a Fall with 40+ deaths on a 20 still. The timer is so long that the only requirements in that dungeon at that level is the healer not griefing dispels on the second boss and the healer simply healing Chromie on the last boss.
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I am only interested in eventually getting +15 for the artifiact tints. After that, whatever happens, happens.
OP it seems like you’re taking things way too personal, unless there is a person or persons you know holding high keys over your head. Not everyone shares the same enthusiasm and dedication to push bigger keys. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Stay around the range you feel comfortable with and have fun.
The only thing that bothers me is when I get whispers from people who have never attempted anything around a 20 getting mad at not being accepted for a 20+ key.
Yeah they do it with pvp rank too. On the wow pvp subreddit people say stuff like “i know im only 2200 but…”
You almost want to go “damn bro thats pretty awful” just because tyou know it’s a humble brag.
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I see it more as a comparison to the alternative PvE progression path where Blizzard seems to equate KSM = Aotc and KSH = CE.
Which by comparison and their relative difficulty/rewards makes mythic+ a joke.
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There’s also zero question that this is by far the easiest M+ season ever.
I don’t even care about M+, I only do it for gearing and Great Vault slots so I can raid. Friends and I were perfectly happy sticking to 17’s last season since that was where the max gear was, but this time, even just 2 weeks into the season, everyone is just… “well, we might as well just do a 20 because they’re easy and why not”.
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While keys and timers are definitely easier this season I still think if people are capable of timing 20s with 40 deaths they’re at least still pretty decent at their class, but likely having a hilariously bad or tilted run and standing in some whoopsydaisy.
I’m more bothered by the amount of dps I’m finding in the 16-19 range still doing 50-90k dps yet still squeaking through and their io showing they’re “competent” for that level
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Definitely. We’re so overpowered it’s kinda nuts. Some trinkets and cantrip items are 10-15% swings in damage and healing. Clases that got a rework this expansion are scaling insane, too. It’s not uncommon to have 1.2M group dps or so. They even made the meta tank a control monster so you don’t need to even deal with trash mechanics.
Every cantrip weapon and trinket probably needs a 40-50% nerf, along with rogues, DH, warlocks, hunters, etc. getting some hard tuning. Or we need to doble base HP for most mobs. These dungeon were not designed for this level of throughput.
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Context is indeed important here, if talking about personal goals or achieving portals, 20 is the highest key that matters. If talking about the impact of the meta and pushing for the title, then 20 is not high by any measure because it’s already been established that any spec can complete 20s on time even with a janky team composition.
There are also different types of players, some get to Keystone master and call it there. Some push for getting portals or Keystone hero, some go a little bit further to time twenties on both weeks, then there are people that push for higher.
The trouble comes when people treat others like a group of players they are not. I fall into the category of completing 20s on both weeks and done with the season, so the 2700 to 2800 bracket is pretty much where I end up by choice rather than any other Factor so it becomes weird if people treat me like I am in the group of players that push for rating because by those standards I am lazy since 2700 is a bare minimum, 3k is a safe low range of breaking away towards less-casual play, then it goes up from there where the high end ends up in the 3.5k ranges.
Those people don’t understand pug life which is how the majority of keys are cleared. I came back last week and had to grind 40+ dungeons to hit 2k last week with only +2’s cleared the previous week. It’s hard work climbing the ladder as DPS. Hitting 2800 in season 1 probably helped me a little bit when joining groups.
20’s are easy, imo they should be when you have the gear. HOWEVER Fall and Rise are a little harder and you have to know the mechanics. I need to try the others at +20 but I heard they are easy. Probably because a lot of us have played those dungeons quite a bit and the timers are generous. Fun gameplay imo that should stay. People demeaning others that play the same guy should look in the mirror.
Pug life is hard. Nobody likes sitting in the LfD tool forever. Especially if you’re an off-meta dps spec. You pretty much have to run your own key every dungeon and live with all the fallout that generates.
I think it would behoove us all to have better social tools in game.
This!
I’ve been healing them on my main (for the season) and it’s been like, really easy to do 16s. Like “oh this is just a 16.” I’ve got a few 18s and most of my guild key folks have 20s already timed.
The more m+ focused members of my guild are at at least 2500. It’s genuinely a pretty easy season to do it. I’d consider myself a solidly average player (maybe just above if I’m being very nice to myself) and I have no doubt I’ll be able to get my portals and 2500.
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The social tools do exist already though (Bnet friends, Communities, guilds), as someone who has been part of the Pug life for a long time, I made a lot of friends in Mythic plus dungeons even while I was playing a non-meta spec and by networking managed to establish ratings and records so that pugs would trust me.
Main thing is to leave a good impression to use them.
this is not a ted talk.
I mean, I have more portals from this season than every previous season combined, and we’re in week 4. I’m not trying to downplay 20s, but there’s no argument that they’re far easier this season than they ever have been before.
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