Everquest didn’t have group limits. Everquest also was horrifically balanced due to being one of the prototypes.
WoW would have to rebalance every dungeon in the game, old and new, from the ground up to accomodate a sixth unit in small groups. But that’s not the real problem. The real problem is simply this: if an Aug + 2 DPS is more than 3 DPS, why wouldn’t you bring two Augs and a DPS to get even more DPS? That is the primary problem and why 3 DPS should equal 2 DPS and an Aug.
they would only have to redesign current dungeons if they made a 6th unite group during the current xpac if they did it next xpac it would only have to be for that. there is no reason to waste time and resources redoing all the old dungeons when there a joke to run as it is since the goal is to run it as fast as you can to maximize your xp gain. also if a dps dies in a group with a aug you have now lost 1 1/2 -2 dps so if you do 2 aug and 1 dps if that 1 dps dies the whole group might as well wipe on that fight
Augmentor isn’t a support. It’s a DPS with an overtuned utility kit. It offers a different playstyle that some clearly enjoy but it’s not some new role that deserves preferential treatment.
So Augs don’t get to do scaling content, or you don’t get a mythical ‘sixth slot’ in groups until level 60 or something? That’s clunky and awkward, and again misses the point; WoW dungeon balancing as a whole would need a complete retune because of a sixth slot.
As far as DPS dying, what’s it matter from a balance perspective? If you can down the target faster with 2 Augs and a DPS then that’s what you practice with and bring to the fight. Faster is better. As long as you can survive, there would be no reason not to bring 2 Augs and a DPS.
how did you even pull that from what i said… no you just run all the lower stuff with a 6th man. it doesnt change anything anyway its still going to get steamrolled like before. theres no reason to add extra difficulty to old stuff that nobody cares about. as long as theres a chance the 1 dps dies its not worth bringing 2 aug and 1 dps. the downside will always be a wipe unless you use a brez. unavoidable damage still exist and bad rng in dungeons is still a thing so its possible that everything focuses on that 1 dps in a fight and your stuck wiping 3 times on a boss you wouldnt have to wipe on if you just had 2 dps
I dunno. I like augment. It’s a fun minigame between my teamates needs that doesn’t have me hyper focused on the same ol chain pewpewpewpewpewpew as usual. It’s a different style and so far I’ve found it entertaining. It really isn’t hard so long as you follow the typical DPS rule of don’t stand in junk. I’d play it long term if they can flesh it out and show exact contributions, which are then brought in line to net benefit as much as another DPS class. I dunno if they’ll ever do it, but I’m definitely one of the number who enjoys the change of pace and playstyle at the moment.
Crazy how a game that has been specifically designed with 3 roles for nearly 20 years breaks down when you introduce a new role masquerading as dps. There is no way to balance support without gutting it to the point where it’s just regular dps. Even after the nurfs you still have 1 spot in m+ locked by aug and at least 2 in raid because of the INSANE increase to utility/support they bring while still doing ok damage. Out of the 24 possible specs you could bring to m+, you can now only choose 2 because the 3rd spot is so overpowered it allows you to do keys 2-3 levels higher on utility/survivability alone.
Supports dmg contribution doesn’t mean much when your limiting factor in content is being able to survive so their dps doesn’t mean much. So if they then nurf what truely makes them OP, their utility/support, you’re left with: Regular dps. Bringing us nicely back to: support is bad in a 20 year old game who’s fundamental design is 3 roles.
Again, provided you practice the encounter and know how to survive it, there would be no downside to bringing two Augs to back up a DPS. And that is the problem. Look at how M+ and its strategies filter down into wider gameplay; once the math checks out, everyone is going to want to do the equation the exact same.
You never assemble a team assuming its members will die.
you also never assemble a team assuming its members will never die. if that was the case it would be 5 dps
It would be if 5 DPS could survive the encounters. The current setup has been mathed out long ago and then enshrined by Blizzard themselves. That’s why we run 1-1-3 and not 2-1-2 or 1-2-2.
EDIT: When assembling your team, you’re doing so under the assumption your team will be capable of meeting the challenges of the event you’re undertaking. These challenges typically differ per class, but one challenge is constant across every class and role; not dying.
Or, when you’re assembling a team, do you not double-check the credentials of your teammates?
well with aug specifically there is only 2 routes 1 there changing it and going to add support specs in the game and change the 1/1/3 to either add a extra role and remove a dps add a extra roll and have 6 people or keep it as a support can fill in the dps but isnt mandatory. if they dont than there wasting everyones time because the aug spec as it is will be 100% redesigned to be a dps spec as blizzard has proven that a support spec is beyond there abilitys even if it isnt for other companies.
Aug wouldn’t be a problem in the least if it didn’t bring any more power to a group than just having a third DPS. That’s the point, Aug is an alternative playstyle, not a replacement, so it shouldn’t outperform other group configurations just because ‘it’s an Aug’.
it only out preforms in good groups. buffing bad dps doesnt really do much. you can only polish a turn just so much. a turd is still a turd
I am assuming every group is performing perfectly when I hypothesize groups. Otherwise there’s no point of comparison; any group falls apart if their members are pants-on-head stupid.
If a group with 3 DPS, playing perfectly, are always and measurably outperformed by a group with 2 DPS and an Aug, again playing perfectly, that is a massive problem, because it means an Aug is worth more than the DPS they’re augmenting, and the group with 1 DPS and 2 Augs, still playing perfectly, would outperform both.
That’s assuming all you evaluate is the damage.
If we look at aug as a dps spec, which it is, and we compare its utility budget with all the other dps specs we see it has them beat on average threefold, not to mention the hps it provides the healer by buffing them as well.
There’s a world where aug is tuned well and has a realistic but not dominant place in content, and it’s the one where it’s treated as an alternate dps style and not a support.
I truly hope they don’t keep going the way they are going, and keep it the support spec it is, and not just turn it into ‘yet another dps’
I don’t expect you have anything to worry about with ratios of buffs to damage. It’s already far more buff focused than any buff based dps in other MMOs, and going from 80/20 to 70/30 is a pretty fair shift.
If by this you mean you hope bliz keep its excessively large utility kit then I think you might be disappointed.
You repeating this over and over doesn’t make it true.
It’s a different playstyle for someone who wants to do something different.
It should be as popular as any other dps spec.
The problem however is that every spec should be able to do solo content, there shouldn’t be an unviable spec for any kind of content. Plus, this smacks of the ‘healers only heal’ argument. Blizzard obviously doesn’t want players just targeting other players in PvE content, this is why traditionally healing-heavy classes and specs like Holy Priest still have important damage buttons. Such is the same with Aug; yes, your personal DPS isn’t as high as the usual DPS, and you’re instead making sure another DPS is strong, but you’re still being expected to contribute DPS of your own.
Unfortunately, the community probably can’t handle a support type spec in this game. We’ve been programmed that dps is the end all/be all when it comes to anyone that isn’t a tank or dps.
Which I find sad because I love the concept of an actual support spec.