I don’t get this.
If you time a +28 key today and you wipe multiple times that costs time, right?
So how is it better or worse if you’re guaranteed fewer wipes on that key?
I can agree with that, to a point. If Augmentation remains an anomaly, there’s no reason for it to have inordinate utility. But if they add more support specs? I’m fine with it.
If you wipe in a 28 key you don’t time it outright (Ignoring the current ludicrously overtuned meta), and you need 3 dps worth of damage to time it anyway.
EQ was the MMO player’s MMO. Loved my Iksar Shaman. But WoW was casual to the point that anyone could pick it up and experience the novelty of a shared online world without all the mechanical RPG baggage. Increased accessibility meant a larger community, and when (ostensibly) other people are the draw of the genre, you pull those specialist EQ players away to play with their friends in the generalist WoW.
Somewhat ironic that WoW is now thought of as the elitist entry.
Ok that’s fine. This is going to be subjective between various key difficulties anyway.
But does it mean you wouldn’t or shouldn’t time it with a support spec? Maybe the support spec makes up the lack of personal DPS for boosting the DPS of the entire party like Auger was supposed to do? An offensive debuffer could also boost damage a target takes.
I don’t think it maps out as the support being useless. A lot more CC also would reduce the need for key DPS too. There are a few ways of looking at this.
Bit of a consensus gentium argument but alright. Have any other way to express that definition? Cause this is a bit of a trap everyone is falling into - everyone has a different definition of support. So if everyone gives at least a big picture definition, then maybe we can talk about it more thoroughly.
I see those as dps, they just do their damage in different ways.
As long as the key still has 3 dps worth of damage in it, it has 3 dps specs in it. Other ways of contributing group damage are cool and welcomed, but they are still dps.
My concern is when you start trying to make specs that do intangible things better at the cost of significantly reduced numbers. I see no place for a “CCer” spec for example.
Use Blizzard’s: a “force multiplier.” They chose to emphasize a support role that boosts damage specifically, so that works well in the WoW context.
This is like saying the EQ enchanter was the same as an EQ warrior because they both mitigated damage. I don’t see the necessity of pancaking them.
Here’s the problem though. You need a well coordinated group to pull off a +28 key and I think we agree here. Especially given you said a wipe means no timing it.
Most of us don’t have access to these groups. So we’re going to be running with people who lean hard on the tank and healer to keep them up. They don’t curse. They don’t stun. They don’t interrupt.
Having a clear role intended to carry out duties of CC would erase all of the complexity of needing a well coordinated group. Not saying you couldn’t do what you wanted to do. But I see room for the CC role.
No…a group with an aug should be doing around the same amount of damage, or less, than a group without an aug. And the reason to bring them extends beyond the damage they provide through themselves and others, it’s their utility.
As long as aug perform on an even relatively level playing field DPS wise, they’re going to be a required pick. It’s an impossible spec to balance, which is why I think it should be kept niche.
I think if Blizzard stayed the course on slower, more methodical dungeon crawling, a “mezzer” would have had a place. But modern WoW has simply outpaced the mezzer role. That being said, I would be glad to be proven wrong. As much as I love the role, I always said it was impossible for Blizzard to add a support at this point. But here we are.
What’s the CCers role in content where throughput is needed though?
At the end of the day I evaluate things based on what they do for the group as a whole, how they do it is a playstyle preference.
The capacity to pull greater numbers and AoE them down?
Im with you 100% on this. I dont want to just be another DPS with slightly more utility. I want to be a utility spec with a little damage.
And in raids?
My point is we’re at a point where we have 40 something specs designed around the core concept that utility does not cost throughput.
Going back on that is rewriting a decade of game design.
Ok, I can work with that. In that case, removing the spec specific utility would make a lot of sense. No Blistering Scales, no Werynstone, no Timelessness, no Time Skip, I’d even argue taking Bronze and Black attunement since those aren’t really ‘force multiplying’. Augmentations role in a group becomes clearer to me then.
Here’s a list of EQ classes, with the roles listed in order of focus. Interesting to glance over to see some of the roles beyond the trinity.
You’ll note that Bard and Shaman are the two support classes, and that healing is listed separately.
I think this is too far. The spec isn’t “not allowed” utility because it buffs players, it should just have a comparable amount to other specs.
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It’s still an evoker. It’s got tail swipe, landslide (which still pairs with eruption), the knockback (blanking on the name), rescue, font of magic, time spiral.
Edit: forgot dream walk and cauterizing wound
Edit2: Zephyr
How much utility does it need?
It shouldn’t be any different there either.
The cutoff would be making it impossible to run certain comps. I’m not sure though if going forward a raid shouldn’t require dedicated CC.
The thing you’re not seeing is what happens when you aren’t part of a well coordinated group. The game is terrible because it expects players to perform functions not clearly delegated to them. DPS isn’t a good indicator of what defines a good player in that category.
I’m less concerned about the original WoW design though around roles and instanced content. I loathe both.