That would be cheating. That’s not how odds work.
If you have 5 beads and have only one chance to pick, that’s 20%.
If you get 5 chance and take out 1 bead and have 4 left, you are now increasing your odds. That’s how odds work.
It does from the mastery %.
But not the chance to trigger a second attack is what I meant.
But that’s the same for CSAA
Might post the results later on, once I’m on the desktop.
They don’t, HP spent increase the duration of Divine hammer, therefor anything that would let you gain HP passively and let you use a spender instead of a builders will help you maintain it longer
Well man I got news for you…
The outcome you don’t want doesn’t fly out the window once you got it 4 times in a row.
On the fifth target, you still have 80% chance it wont trigger just like the first 4.
Do the things with the beads.
And pull them out 100 times, you might pull the blue one twice in a row and you might spend 20 pull without getting it.
That’s how the AoW proc works.
1 Like
Yeah, and…??? How does that make csaa Mastery scaling better than TS Mastery scaling?
They’re BOTH scaling.
I think you’re cool beenz as well so understand this isn’t an argument or “gotcha” debate. This is merely a discussion of ideas and information, nothing more. I’m always here to learn as well as possibly add my own wisdom.
That being said, to say that you barely pause with ret just isn’t correct, my Brother. There are always mechanics where you’re just not in contact with your adversary, from grounds mechanics to boss frontals to aoe damage, etc. He!!, there are mechanics that purposely slow your Haste, thus lengthening your cds. The second boss in Dawnbreaker is notorious for this.
Again, you’re “cheating” by adding another Talent point in the equation. I could easily do the same with TS. And TS interacts with more Talents than csaa.
HAH! My man. This is why I like you; you keep it a buck. Much props.
Sims aren’t 100% accurate.
You still get props from me, though.
yes, but this is why things dont exist in a vacuum, they both scale. but having your autos aka a passive thing. also scale with mastery is kinda insane. compared to having a active ability scale with mastery
yes that is true. i didnt think i would have to mention that. but i when i say pauses i mean like rotationally. not mechanically. like your on the boss and theres like this strange pause with csaa where you can press anything cause its on cd. that mostly happens if you made a rotational mistake.
i try my best lmao, i like you to frendo
while sims arnt 100% accurate, its a good reachable bar to shoot for. alot of players actively reach past their sims for alot of specs. this is just the most realistic average a person could possibly reach if it was a perfect pull. granted even if you get mechanics your not gonna be to far off from your sim number with solid rotational play. its a good tool to have and find your best gear and see what your max potential could be
im a solid player, but to others i often talk to. im not a good player in their sense of the word. mostly cause i click my rotation. which is a big no no for anyone pushing any spec to its actual limits. while i can touch my sims and rival these people. i know ill always be somewhat behind because of how i perfer to play.
1 Like
Fair enough.
I thought csaa gets NO benefit from Skyfury… 
I’m not denying what you said, I have total respect for you and Arahgon. I’m just wondering what parameters the sims take in to calculate its results.
Correct, which brings me to my point of TS give more HoPo than csaa alone. Unless you extend it, DH is only 8 seconds. You can possibly get 2 TS combo strikes with that time giving you 4 HoPo, whereas you cannot with csaa.
Okay. I don’t see it (perhaps I’m not as smart as you), but…okay. I’ll take your word for it.
My man. See, we can both be right from different perspectives. I’m glad you pointed this out because ultimately for me, this is the point from a gameplay perspective on why I think TS is better than csaa. Instant damage with instant HoPo generation.
I’m not here to win an “argument” and you and Ben just may be legitimately correct on why csaa may be superior to TS…from a rotational viewpoint. I think we just came to a legit conclusion on BOTH of our parts. Well done, Arahgon, well done indeed.
My Brother.
I doesn’t benefit from the double attack ( it doesn’t apply) but it does from the mastery buff.
TS is not an auto attack so it doesn’t benefit from this part either but it does get boosted by mastery.
I don’t think it does because it didn’t really change much mechanically since it was implemented and it was never close with CSAA in generation.
Furthermore, like I said, if the GCD is filled with BoJ HP wise
Over the same amount of time.
CS+CS = 2 HP
BoJ + BoJ +CSAA = 3 HP
I’ll go check some sims tonight for the generation but if it’s anything like it was before it’s not close but not for TS.
your just as smart cause you look at things from a different perspective. a perspective that forces me to look through and learn from as well.
your also correct in alot of stuff as well like ts being stronger by itself. and mechnically forced downtime
as long as people understand at the end of the day its a game, and no one here plays at a level where these % differences should matter. then i dont see a reason why you shouldnt play ts.
2 Likes
Really? Okay. I just learned something new.
How so? Without the extra added point from Art of War, csaa gives 2 HoPo every 10 seconds whereas TS gives 4 HoPo.
That being said, you should read Arahgon and my exchange and we came to a mutual agreement concerning csaa vs. TS based on his keen observation of this discussion:
I think this may sum up the csaa vs. TS debate.
1 Like
You just may have the wisdom of Archbishop Alonsus Faol himself. 
1 Like
When talking about ts, we need to keep in mind AA is also running in the background with it. When calculating damage output of ts vs cssa, you need to put in ts + AA then compare it against csaa (since csaa replaces AA.)
So in that sense, since ts does not replace AA, it allows us to benefit from skyfury beyond just the mastery, while CSAA does not and only benefits from the mastery portion.
Just remember taking ts means base AA remains, it’s AA that benefits from skyfury, not ts itself, well except the mastery part of it.
2 Likes
Of course but there’s no mastery scaling on normal AA and it also stop benefiting from blade of light.
Skyfury is not so consequential as to turn the whole scale on its head.
That is still not an arguement, as we have ts to scale with mastery.
So with the skyfury buff, we get the additional swing from AA and the mastery scaling through ts.
Alright I did a updated sim since I got Siren Isle Ring (still missing legendary skipper gem but got another DPS one in there for the time being).
With M+build TS comes in at 0.5% behind CSAA in ST, basically nothing.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2GS62TjDzFCZtW1TXs1NLi
and for AoE (5 targets) TS pull ahead 0.8%.
So as of now for me, it’s basically a gameplay choice (which is nice).
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/v7JLFyhBZKo9yC6HqnSkXr
1 Like
My man.
Always appreciate your insights.
if you want my sims
raidbots com/simbot/report/a9nCxT2LKd2rbpRPx32iki ts is a loss for me in m+ build st
while its a solid gain in st raid build.
im sure ican do some optimization like that mana gem im to lazy to take off but i dont think ttheres much of a difference.
1 Like
20% chance of an additional swing, so as much as AoW proc minus the crit scale.
And since you take Hearth of the crusader instead of Zealot fervor, that’s 40% less attack speed…
Depends on build. You can get both. But i wasn’t including that anyways.
Crits only makes it 30% on AoW.
You’d need to drop either Searing Light or Divine Hammer.
Not big losses but still below what you can get by picking them.
My point is, 20% ain’t that much for an AA that doesn’t do anything for Ret gameplay wise outside of AoW proc.
The chance of getting a Skyfury attack that generates a BoJ reset is 4% to 6% and 6% is on a crit. That’s really not that big a deal.
The mastery is the main upside for Ret.
Templar Strikes is what needs to be deleted.