I know the duration doesn’t, but does the agility increase stack? If it does, is it worth stacking this if you have two azerite pieces that have this ability?
Multiple Azerite pieces stack the agility you gain per stack of the buff, yes. No, it’s still not a very worthwhile Azerite trait. It’s not bad per say, but it’s definitely not what we seek out. I only really take it over things like Eyes of Rage. Our highest priority class-specific trait is Thirsting Blades, with Furious Gaze not far behind. From a utility perspective, it can also be handy to have a Chaotic Transformation and a Revolving Blades slotted.
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Isn’t one Eyes of Rage the bees knees for dungeons?
Either way, I am loving my helm off of heroic Champ. ![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
Eh? Last I checked, the CDR from it stacked even with multiple, so stacking it would be in that case. But we don’t run Appetite anymore, so the benefits are pretty muted even in M+. Talking like 4s off the CD per pack at best.
now ive only begun progressing with this guy and I tend to only glance at the guides while im learning a spec. as I prefer to learn the spec by playing and seeing the way talents and spells interact. having said that I feel eyes of rage is an extremely powerful talent. if you have the ability to stack 3 of these your eye beam ticks are extremely OP. and u get more of them. follow that up with trait or 2 of seething power and u can spam chaos to up your agility and then bam your eye beam does even more damage. not to mention so does your blade dance since you tend to go EB - BD - CS - CS - CS - BD during your eye beam meta. so your last BD hits for a ton. all in all I think all the havoc specific traits are pretty usuable. u can either build for aoe or st or have a set for both
The power of Eyes of Rage is the CDR, not the damage. Eye Beam already does a TON of damage. Mine ticks for ~3360 main target and ~2240 offtarget, 15 ticks, for a total of 50400 main target and 33600 off. A 390 version of Eyes of Rage adds 1890 damage with Blind Fury (1260 without). Including our spec aura (+11%) and my versatility (4.08%) and mastery (25.19%), that’s 2733.5, which is a total gain of ~8.1% (to both main and off, since I’m pretty sure the damage gain also gets the 50% bonus on main target). Even with 3, that’s only a ~24% bonus. Not nothing, but pretty minor for a 3 trait investment. On the DPS side, that’s 2733.5 damage per 30 seconds per trait per target, or ~91.1 DPS per trait per target (136.7 on main target).
Comparatively, Revolving Blades at 390 grants 1144 additional damage. Against main target (it scales with First Blood), and also including our spec aura and versatility, that’s 3105.9, and against off targets, that’s 1321.6. However, this is applied to an ability with a base CD of 9s. I have 20.87% haste baseline. I have 1 390 Furious Gaze (854 haste), which has an uptime of 40%, and thus grants an average of another 5.02% haste (additive, since it grants rating). I also have a ~33.3% uptime on Meta (including the time I spend channeling Eye Beam, which we do get the Meta haste effect for), which gives me another 8.32% haste, multiplicative. Net total is an average of 36.37% haste, which gives my Blade Dance an average CD of 6.60s. Assuming I use it perfectly (which, granted, is harder to do than using Eye Beam perfectly), the DPS contribution of Revolving Blades is 200.2 on off targets and 470.6 on main target.
So Revolving Blades comes in, by that, at around 2.2 times as potent for AoE and around 3.5 times as potent for single-target.
This is why I say Eyes of Rage is so mediocre. The CDR can be useful in M+, but the problem is, it scales inversely with the key level. The higher your keystone, the longer you spend on each trash pack, and the less average souls per minute and thus CDR per use you get. But the damage component is massively behind the other traits.
Edit: Ok, in retrospect, I need to test Eyes of Rage. Eye Beam is a guaranteed crit, but the damage formula actually has no crit included (the tooltip annotates total damage done already including the doubling from 100% crit chance). If Eyes of Rage is applied to base damage rather than post-crit damage, that would bump it to around 91% as potent as Revolving Blades for AoE and around 58% as potent for single-target. I’m not sure the specifics of how it applies, though, so I’ll need to scrounge up a piece and test it.
wow thanks for the explanation. I guess I was just looking at the damage and figured adding 3 of those was the easiest route to more aoe. which appears to be our niche. I also was listening to my guildie who said that the damage is added per tick. if the damage is not per tick then revolving blades is just better because we need more help in ST then AOE. BOD seems to have a decent amount of low cleave and ST. not a whole bunch of AOE. Mythics are a different story but BD hits all targets too so it helps ST and AOE
Given that the damage on the trait tooltip shows 50% higher with Blind Fury (which increases the number of ticks by 50%), I’m almost 100% confident that the damage is across the entire channel, not per tick. If it were per tick, it would be hilariously overpowered (and wouldn’t increase in the tooltip, because it would already be applying to 50% more ticks).
Ya, that was mostly my point. If you’re optimizing for AoE, Revolving Blades gives you more for the same trait slot, because it’s better on AoE and much better on single-target. If you’re optimizing for single-target, you should be stacking Thirsting Blades and Furious Gaze instead anyway. Furious Gaze + Revolving Blades is a good hybrid mix, if you want to benefit both, since the haste gain benefits Blade Dance CD after Eye Beam. It’s recommended to have at least 1 Thirsting Blades in all content, though, because the cost reduction on it is fairly potent in its own right.
so for single target and AOE whats your wish list? what 6 traits do u want for each situation? and what do you choose for the other offensive azerite rows? the general ones I mean
If I had a choice in the matter, I’d probably take 3x Thirsting Blades, 3x Furious for pure single-target (with maybe one of the Furious swapped for Revolving for the cost savings). For AoE, probably 3x Revolving, 1x Thirsting, 2x Furious. For a hybrid setup, I’d probably aim for 1x Thirsting, 3x Furious, 1x Revolving, with the final trait one of Thirsting, Revolving, or Chaotic, depending on the actual fight/content in question.
One thing to note is that Furious gains a ton of potency when running Fel Barrage, since FB’s damage done scales with haste (it channels for a fixed 3.0s, but gains additional bolts/ticks proportionate to your haste), meaning that the Eye Beam -> Death Sweep -> Fel Barrage combo is even stronger. And Fel Barrage is basically the standard in M+ now due to Reaping.
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wow I did not know that about fel barrage… that’s fricken awesome! thanks for all the info. think im gonna go with a AOE build. as much as we have good all around damage our AOE is really SS tier when optimized. its just so powerful
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It is, but a couple things to keep in mind. First, this isn’t an exclusive thing. It’s a good idea to keep multiple extra Azerite items on hand, sometimes even lower-ilevel ones (though almost never more than a 15 ilevel difference), so you can swap around your trait set depending on the content you’re in.
Second BoD is much less AoE oriented than Uldir was, so if your focus is raiding, you want to make sure you have a single-target-oriented set on hand for BoD. By all means, though, go balls-to-the-wall on AoE traits for M+, especially on Fortified weeks and in trash-heavy dungeons like Motherload.
@Xaedys you should really build a BiS list of Azerite gear. You are very knowledgeable and wait for your comments on the DH forums.
So far I have the piece from Champions and Gronk as really good dungeon pieces for the revolving blades. But I heard that revolving blades isn’t really good this season, should we not target revolving blades anymore over the Eyes of Rage and the other Eye Beam trait?
Problem is, BIS depends on content, and to some extent playstyle. It depends on what you’re optimizing towards. It’s hard to pin down, and there exists disagreement.
Personally, Revolving Blades is still my gold standard for AoE. It massively trumps Eyes of Rage for AoE (and even more in single-target) as far as the actual damage contribution goes. Eyes of Rage’s secondary effect, the CDR, is arguably of use, but I find it to be pretty weak, since the content you most need the resets on (higher keys, especially on Fortified) is the content you get the least souls on, because the trash doesn’t die as quickly.
Revolving Blades is consistent AoE and single-target damage. It’s not at the same level on single-target as Thirsting or Furious, but it’s still very solid, and very potent on AoE too. The one caveat to that is that in a Reaping environment, having one Eyes of Rage isn’t a bad idea, because a single Chaos Nova on a Reaping pack can get you an entire reset if you’re lucky with the soul procs. But beyond that one, I’d definitely take Revolving Blades over it for AoE, and Thirsting/Furious are significant ahead of both for single-target.