Thread topic.
I’m curious what other players think about this.
Personally, I don’t mind min-maxing in multiplayer games. There will always be a “meta” as a result of this. That said, I also don’t mind build/spec/class diversity. I’m an advocate of playing what you find fun or what you inherently enjoy. I also vary from tier to tier. Some tiers, I’ll reroll FOTM and other tiers, I’ll stick to a particular spec no matter how awful it is because I like it.
No.
Back in Legion, IIRC the world record for a Mythic Guarm kill was like 5 seconds before the hard enrage.
I don’t like min/maxing, I think the community is dumb for doing it, but part of the blame goes on Blizzard IMO.
I think it depends on what level if content you play.
For more casual players min/maxing doesn’t matter at all since most normal/heroic content can be completed without worrying about the meta.
Obviously it is a different story for competitive play.
I think the big issue is the PUG community because players unnecessarily apply the META to casual content when it isn’t needed. As PUG’ing has become more popular, the issue has been getting a lot more attention.
I actually enjoy it.
I would say, it depends on the person.Some would like the easiest build and other would like the complex form for fun. Add other stuff would make it different .
I don’t like min maxing. I find it boring, but it doesn’t bother me that players who find it inspirational have an outlet for that style of play.
However, giving all control of end gameplay to people who value min maxing has resulted in a large player loss of those who don’t like it or aren’t good at theorycrafting and willing to spend whatever it takes and play however many hours they need to to succeed at esports.
This game is supposed to be for profit. Losing lots of customers is bad for profitability.
If your preferred playstyle is the current meta, no; if the current meta is a playstyle you hate, yes. I imagine frost mages weren’t too happy with fire mages being dominant for so many tiers.
I don’t play top-level content and tend to level out around +22-24 keystones, so I don’t stress too hard on meta builds and just tell my friends to play what they are best at and most comfortable with. Had some people come into our groups and scream at us for “doing it wrong” - we just don’t play with those types again.
Minmax is a natural result of having challenging content.
To answer your question with a question:
Would a multiplayer game with only facerollable content be fun for very long?
well, competitive gaming in general hits a point where difficulty - and response to difficulty - makes it no longer fun. 90s games were notorious for not being tested on max difficulty so the game goes from “Janitor on the death star” to “pacman jesus and the well of lost souls” in one difficulty tick.
MMO players aka the “hardcore” endgame players optimize the fun out of ALL games everyone knows this no one says it because the “hardcore” people are toxic.
Contra 3 says hello.
Yes and no… really comes down to whether or not you’re playing with other players of a similar mindset.
no, that’s only when they hit a difficulty wall.
if you join a normal mode ‘jailer only’ pug for example, you can be way sub-optimized and be okay. if it’s a heroic jailer pug… much moreso.
WoW is set up in a weird way where being optimal is a starting point. in EVE, because it’s not instanced and it’s all outdoors, being a +1 is good even if you’re useless.
I don’t like it personally, but I honestly don’t see how you design a game like this without it.
Also, it’s not entirely necessary. The average player does not need to spec into the absolute min-maxed build to enjoy end-game content. Unless you’re going for world firsts or doing Heroic or Mythic raiding, the percentages between a player who specs the way they want and feels best for them and one who min/maxes every possible minute detail of their character aren’t really worth all the extra effort and sacrifices of personalization.
It really comes down to this: Do you want the game to be an RPG or do you want it to be a coop MOBA?
Everybody has their style and there’s enough room for variation that both sets of players are served equally well imo. If I’m doing 10% DPS less than a Mythic raider, I’m not losing any sleep over it since I don’t have any aspirations to progress any farther than LFR in that regard.
Yeah, whatever floats your boat.
I don’t follow what the person next to me is doing, nor do I listen to the masses. If I were ever in a tight knit guild doing group content regularly…well, even then they would have to deal with how I play my character. As long as we are clearing content without problems, there shouldn’t be a problem.
I’ve been playing MMOs for over 20 years. I know how to play quite well, no matter my class or role. FOTM was never my thing, even back in the day. Yes, even 20 years ago there was a meta.
If you find it fun, go for it. I like a different brand of fun. Since I am the one paying for my sub, I’ll keep doing what I want.
Kinda depends I would say, sometimes min-maxing will only net you a 1% bonus depending on the game/situation/whatever. A meta will always exist in whatever game that comes out I would say. But in regards to the WoW community, I feel like players fret over it too much sometimes when they’re not even touching the level of content that would require them to.
I don’t mind doing it for content that needs it.
Mythic Raiding - Yes
Heroic Raiding - Yes up to the time your gear by default surpasses its requirements
Normal Raiding - *See Heroic Raiding
Now, M+…lord, M+. I believe Min Maxing when you are aiming for ranking and doing 20+, etc etc…but a 15? stop it. Some people will comment in the middle of a 15 “why are you not with x covenant and using x talent…” Because it’s a 15. You want to min-max a 15 go do it with other min-maxers or your friends/guildies.
Min-Max has its places, but also people need to know when it’s needed…and when it’s not.
Nope. Only thing that isn’t fun is having only one viable path and the others being actual trash.
It’s not like one build is min/max and the rest are okay. No, it’s usually “this is the only build you have that isn’t trash” when it comes to bfa/SL.
Depends on the player. For me, it does. So I don’t do it. It’s fine if other players want to Min/Max or find it fun.