I’m just firmly against him getting any sort of happy ending or a redemption arc as it were.
Did you see those words in my posts? Or are you making up things I never said while attributing them to me?
When you solve that mystery, it will answer your question.
If a woman has her soul split by a mourneblade, and is denied her choice by the man who willingly wields the sword, but then she is made whole, while actively seeking redemption for the things she did while under its effect - that is different than the hogwash you are spewing. Basically your comparison is just wrong.
She clearly was not her whole self after Arthas violated her. And not in a figurative psychological sense, like you are trying to compare with abuse - there was an actual part of her in a fragment the Jailer had.
There was a whole cinematic about it.
Yes, the way you like to just invent hogwash no has one has said, and build an argument around it, is like a strawman covered in 
. Cherry picking is putting it politely. More like wading through to point out your bias and inaccuracies.
People such as yourself want to ignore the cinematic and the lore to defend Arthas and cry about Sylvanas. The same people see entire sentences no one ever posted, so their warped and wrong view fits with the way they seem to read things.
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Nope.
Most people agree that Sylvanas was not evil until Arthas violated her and used sorcery to make her hateful. Jaina and Lorthemar mention she was a hero in life. Sylvanas had no choice in what she became- in fact, she wanted a clean death.
On the other hand, Arthas chose to wield Frostmourne. He was not under its power when he made the choice. And he had already done evil before that point.
Sylvanas was good but she was turned evil by Arthas, against her will. Arthas was evil already and became more evil by choice.
And not everyone agrees with you.
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Just repeating this. According to the rules/laws of shadowlands, both Arthus and Sylvanas were entitled to appear before the Arbiter and receive judgement on their respective appropriate afterlives.
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I think there is discord between the various ways of even going at this topic, at least in a vague sense, as we build up to an apparent climax - so to speak :
What we would like to see.
What we think should happen.
What we think is the lore-based result according to “the rules”.
What we think will happen - a prediction.
These 4 can sound very similar, but they are like different shades of the same color.
I would like to see Arthas come back, join the Alliance, and invade Silvermoon alongside Turalyon and Alleria - while Sylvanas rejoins the Horde, and gets another round at defending Silvermoon.
What should happen? See my first post in the thread. Sylvanas should get the chance to destroy him - but instead, gives the new Arbiter the chance to judge.
What is the lore based result according to the rules? That depends on who makes the rules, and who is in charge. Zovaal has proven to be a jerk - is the new Arbiter going to reprocess everything he judged while he was Arbiter? If Zovaal wins, and this Pelagos stuff is a distraction - he will set new rules.
What will happen? Like a prediction I would bet $100 on? I wouldn’t bet on one.
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Exactly my point about ignoring the context of the story.
As I and others have said several times now is that you can’t judge people on a misinformed decision that another party orchestrated.
The Orcs drank the demon blood because they were lied to. When they went on their rage fueled slaughter of the Draenei and the Humans they can’t be fully blamed.
Thats why when WoD arrived and totally destroyed that premise is why many Horde players were and still are pissed off.
As for Arthas’ evils, no one here pretends he was a nice guy but everthing he did was to save his kingdom rather than destroy it starting with the murder of his father.
Thats fine, no one needs to agree with me and I don’t seek to change anyone’s mind. If the past couple of years have proven anything no minds are changed by debates online.
And besides I am not the only one here holding this position. Most of the discussion here seems to be the Sylvanas fans who refuse to allow Arthas the same benefits of doubt Sylvanas seems to be getting and others who question the double standards.
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If you want to redeem Arthas. You are most likley a very bad person without any morals. That is how bad you are.
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Interesting coming from you.
But no, wanting Arthas to have a “happy” ending is what a normal person with a kind heart would want.
It’s not just about Arthas, it’s about everyone that was screwed by Zovaal in one way or another.
And slaughtering your own subjects without even trying to work out an alternative makes perfect sense?
The Light has been established multiple times to have no ethical or moral code of it’s own. You can be full scumwad evil and still work the Light just as a Shadow Priest can be “good”.
The Road to the Maw is paved with…
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If Erevien thinks you’re a bad person, then you must be doing something right.
I officially declare that I, Alynsa, do hereby wish to see a full redemption arc for Arthas that ends with him as the benevolent leader of not just the Forsaken but the joint Horde and Alliance as a whole, ruling all with an open glove and not a closed fist. I want to see him showered with rose petals, given full acknowledgement for all of his good deeds and with all of his bad acts handwaved away.
Make this happen. I want to see if Erevien explodes.
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Be kind of appropriate given this memory…
If we went’ by Lucifer’s rules, Arthas’ room would be to relive this moment for eternity.
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That is exactly why I want it.
Arthas was a bad person long before he picked up Frostmourne. Sylvanas became bad after Arthas tormented her beyond repair. That is the major difference here. Arthas was a jerk even before undeath. Got that? Good. Glad we spoke.
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Why the sole focus on women only? Why is Sylvanas a special case in your eyes. Are you saying that if a man has their soul split by a mourneblade they are responsible for their actions like Uther? Weird take right there.
You are basically saying that it is 100% okay for an abuser to abuse others simply because they are a woman. That is what you are saying. She was going to enslave Derek and force him to kill his family. Are you saying that is fine with you because Derek is a man? Or are you just gonna say, “Sylvanas was a victim of abuse, that is why it doesn’t count”. Basically proving my point either way. Sylvanas had her free will at that point. Fractured soul or not. Same with Uther when he threw Arthas into the maw.
Cursewords is angry that I am actually correct in my assessment. Don’t pull a scott morrison on me and say, “I never said that”. You clearly did.
Still does not give her a free pass to inflict abuse on a similar or the same level. Like what she was going to do with Derek.
Where did I defend Arthas? I said he doesn’t deserve a happy ending unless he puts in the effort. Aka atone in Revendreth. If he fails to atone like Garrosh did then so be it. I even said he did evil things. As numerous people have said, people just as bad or worse than Arthas got a chance in Revendreth. That is the whole point of Revendreth. Hell, if we are gonna go down the “fractured / stolen souls = aren’t responsible for their actions” then Arthas torturing Sylvanas shouldn’t apply to him either. Since his soul was stolen by Frostmourne prior to that. What Sylvanas was going to do to Derek was similar to what Arthas did to her. That is a continuation of the cycle of abuse.
Now who is making up and building an argument around it.
You are also ignoring that the game itself is saying that Arthas at least should’ve had a chance in Revendreth. Something you also ignored in my post. Grow up Cursewords. You basically did what I knew you would do.
Let’s leave aside all the baggage with the insults and say, for the sake of argument, you’re right.
Arthas was a bad person, full stop. He is fully responsible for all his sins.
Guess what? He’s still not as bad as some people who got their turn on front of the Arbiter.
He didn’t deserve to be chucked directly into the worst fate that can befall a soul in WoW.
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There wasn’t any time. And before he even got started the infection had already spread accross the entire city. The only thing that kept them confined was Arthas’ army keeping them in.
Nobody had a solution, when the scourge was out in full force no one still didn’t have a solution. What was the alternative? Again you keep ignoring the nuances of the situation just to vilify Arthas more than he ought to be.
Then that addresses the point the other poster raised that “even the light was not cool with Arthas”.
Thats fine.
But if you are going to hold this position then you will have to apply to Sylvanas as well.
Thats what OP of this thread is asking.
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Exactly. The whole point was that there was no solution. It was a lose-lose situtation. Wait around and try to find another way? Just gives Mal’ganis more time to accelerate the plague on those who consumed it. Almost like people intentionally forget that Mal’ganis was inside the city already.
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Woah, wait, now hold up a second. I get trying to engage with Erevien on an intellectual level…
But can’t we just do that and keep the baggage and the insults?
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It’s true that I did have to grit my teeth a bit typing “you’re right”… but I also briefly confused the male blood elves in hats (sorry, Cursewords, you deserve better), so I needed to self flagellate a bit in penance.
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Honestly this insistence that it’s an either/or situation perplexes me.
Going to Revendreth isn’t some flat “everyone gets the same” situation. Obviously the amount of culpability in one’s sins plays into how long you end up being there, just as the capacity for coming around to accepting said culpability plays into how long it takes to sort through it all and come out redeemed (or not, depending upon the person.)
People act like Arthas and Sylvanas both going to Revendreth would be an unjust case of the same punishment being doled out for two completely different people despite their completely different amounts of responsibility for their sins, but that’s not at all how it works. Going there is different for everyone. However much one or the other is to be held accountable would directly affect how long they actually get subjected to the process of atonement, along with their respective personalities’ willingness to take responsibility and own the wrongness of the misdeeds. And honestly none of that should be especially relevant to us or Azeroth because realistically neither of them should be getting in and out in the amount of time it takes us to finish up Shadowlands, go home and presumably seal up the giant hole in the veil behind us.
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