As a feminine woman I have noticed that you attack femininity in both women and men, a lot. I wasn’t going to say anything but this thread is the straw that broke the camels back.
You are not a feminist if you are going to take a dump on femininity.
I don’t know what you have going on in your life as a gender fluid person but your disdain for femininity, your hyper sexualized persona, your wierd internalized misogyny makes you seem like a person who needs to figure some stuff out.
You claim to be the forum bada$$ bit who calls out toxic gamer boys but you stan the most toxic male WoW character… a literal manchild.
You seem to only see feminity and feminine sexuality as a manipulation tool. Do you really see women or sex that way?
I;m an Arthas fanboy. I just recognize that Arthas was evil long before he ever picked up Frostmourne and nobody made him do anything he wasn’t already willing to do himself
Any Royal family in an Absolute Monarchy is going to have one sided views of Loyalty, that is what an Absolute Monarchy is…
But that is also the Norm of human civilizations on Azeroth.
What Arthas did wasn’t causing widespread harm with capricious demands and abuses with indifference to who was affected… It was to save his Kingdom from an undead plague.
The people at Stratholm were already dead. They were destined to be raised into undead and set off to cause more harm. That’s not capricious, that’s not abuse, that is not indifferent. That is just the cold calculus of the situation, and Arthas took the action to saved the most lives.
Arthas didn’t stop Jaina. He never talked about her bitterly after the fact. We never hear him verbalize any sense of distain for what she did. She did something, it broke his heart, and that was it, and that happens between friends all the time.
LOL when?!
You are just making that up. I have never done that. I have talked about toxic masculinity on the forums several times, and I have always firmly rejected it.
What the hell are you even talking about? Are you so desperate for a superficial W that you are just going to make something up? That is called slander ya know.
Simplistic assignments of “good” and “evil” are good for four-color comic books.
The better stories of Warcraft have a bit more depth to them.
The truth of the matter is that both have done actions that need to be answered for. To borrow from the Venthyr, both would have some pretty large sinstones to bear.
Cdev: Arthas was evil before wielding Frostmourne
SF: No he wasn’t
Death: Please show me your reference that Sylvanas was evil before being made into a banshee, and I’ll concede my point
SF: Remember that time she and her troops gave their life trying to defend Quel’thalas during the invasion?
SF: /derpface
How was anyone supposed to read this comment context as anything different than “if I dress like Sylvanas, I can get away being evil” the impression I get is you are saying Sylvanas gets a pass because she’s sexy, and that’s the same toxic anti-Sylvanas rhetoric toxic Arthas fanboys use to devalue and objectify her and her fans.
Are you a toxic Arthas fanboy?
Micah proves one can be an Arthas fanboy and not be toxic so why can’t you as a self proclaimed feminist do the same?
Can you talk about Arthas’s good qualities without comparing him to Sylvanas? This thread seems to prove that Arthas never had a good leg to stand on to begin with.
And I dont. He was no more evil or good then anyone else. And that if circumstances were different he could have potentially ended up a very different person.
Most of her fans are horny boys fetishizing her, so… Maybe that’s not you, but you should know that it’s a big, sweaty, unhygienic sausage party in there. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it’s not your fault.
Not really… this thread shows that the people who villainize him are, ironically but not surprisingly, Sylvanas fans. Turning a blind eye to their kween while blaming Arthas for the exact same crimes.
I don’t really think you should be talking about enslavement, chief. You’ll get absolutely nothing, because the people who make this game and the community who play it both DESPISE you - because you are so utterly and completely despicable.
This is me the person talking to you the person, by the way - not you the Blood Elf you’ve deluded yourself into believing you are because I’m sure nobody in the real world can bring themselves to care about the real you.
From my experience in the Sylvanas fandom, it’s mostly women who are her fans. There’s only a loud minority of creepy guys, there’s also an overwhelming about of just cool down to earth men who like her character too.
You think people sexualize Anduin too. Is that your go to insult for what’s currently popular? Illidan is shirtless I’m sure Ili-daddy has a lot of fans who sexualize him too… Knaak did.
I think that’s kind of expected in this genre.
Gaming in general has been a big sweaty unhygenic sausage party for years. But with the rise of social media, women are more represented in gaming fandoms than ever before. WoW is majority female players in a recent poll they did.
I mean, I liked Sylvanas before Blizz utterly ruined her character… But I wasn’t naive about it. She was never some feminist symbol, she was the sexualized, morally questionable, mean girl goth chick that was designed to appeal to edgy horny teenaged gamer boys.
Illidan is much to the same effect. A broody, self-entitled edgelord who thinks the entire world just doesn’t understand him, and that’s why he hates everyone, because they are all just like lame mom and dad and big brother. Hates everyone except his crush of course, who he doesn’t actually love, but he is so socially and emotionally illiterate that can’t distinguish genuine love from infatuation. Obsessed only with the idea of her loving him, because in is mind, he is more deserving of her than his big brother. She is nothing more than a trophy to him and that’s precisely why she chose Malfurion over him. But edgy gamer boys don’t realize it, and just blame “The Friend Zone” or being “Nice guy” or something equally stupid.
No surprise that those two characters have big fan followings, considering how a majority of WoW players are.
Illidan and Sylvanas are nothing alike in that regards.
The whole Illidan part of Legion was absolutely laughable. We had a prime Naaru “showing” us the “suffering” that Illidan had been through and it was all childish nonsense. Are we supposed to think that his unrequited love was some soul shattering occurrence? Because there’s nothing soul shattering about it, it’s something everyone experiences.
In the case of Sylvanas, she had her soul forcibly torn out by Arthas only to then be used to butcher the very people she’d fought tooth and nail to protect - all while totally conscious of what she was been made to do while being unable to stop it.
The two aren’t remotely comparable, Sylvanas was actually tortured and abused by Arthas - Illidan just acted like a spoilt child. Which is a shame, it would have been good if they’d have given Illidan more for people to empathise with.
Your characterisation of characters that suffered as just “edgy goth bait” is odd. Are these characters just supposed to act as though it never happened? That seems like nonsense.
Sylvanas took the villain route and committed crimes that can’t just be handwaved aside - but there was reasoning behind it.
Arthas is a similar style of character, but at the same time entirely different to both Illidan and Sylvanas. Arthas was not framed as having “suffered” and in turn having gone off the rails. Arthas was framed as being willing to go to extreme lengths in order to fend off the plague of undeath, which eventually led to his taking up of Frostmourne and decent into darkness proper. His narrative bears almost no similarities to that of Sylvanas nor Illidan beyond the base level of them being “heroes” that turned to darkness.
Initially she was obsessed with bringing down Arthas, her abuser. Once that had been achieved she even threw herself from ICC, because she’d achieved all she wanted to achieve in undeath and didn’t want to continue on with that existence.
Only she was shown the torment that awaited her and “her people” should she die. She then became obsessed with avoiding that fate and saw any price being worth the cost of avoiding it.
Makes perfect sense to me? The whole Jailer nonsense doesn’t, but I think up until BfA she made plenty of sense. The Stormheim interaction between her and Genn was a nice highlight of how she was working to avoid death forever through the subjugation of Eyir, which would have provided her with an endless supply of Val’kyr.
“You took my sons future, now I have taken yours.” - Genn Greymane
Was such a powerful line because it was a moment of vengeance for Genn. Sylvanas had caused the death of his son and now he had stolen the “immortality” that Sylvanas had been working to achieve.
Of course, none of this makes any sense anymore after BfA/SL - but very little makes sense in the context of the last two expansions. Prior, I think Sylvanas made plenty of sense as a character.
She wasn’t a “good guy” or a “hero”. She was largely self-serving. So what? Does every character we have need to be some selfless hero that puts others above themselves? Don’t we have enough of those characters in the roster?
Maybe I’m the crazy one here, I just find it really creepy that there are people who think Arthas actually deserves a redemption. Like…no, just no. Never. Dude was evil full stop and didn’t like being told no. He violated sylvanas just because she dared to stand in his way and he threw a fit over it.
As for Sylvanas, I always liked her because I found her to be a badass and a interesting character. And she is a symbol for a lot of people. Of course there are going to be people who like her simply because she’s a pretty elf, it’s just creepy when thats the ONLY reason someone likes her.
Was there reasoning behind War of Thorns? The Fourth War? Breaking the Helm of Domination only to have a change of heart when the Jailer was within reach of his goal?
Also, what is the reasoning of raising more undead knowing that is subscribes them to eternal torment in the afterlife? You conveniently the issues that have been plaguing her character for over a decade, and those issues are relevant here. The old Sylvanas, they one you seem to be a fan of, and the one I was a fan of too… She’s dead… Pun intended.
I genuinely can’t take anyone seriously that brings up Stratholme as an argument against Arthas. 100% of the time the person didn’t read the novel and even if they did they entirely misunderstand the circumstances.
If you’re going to claim that Sylvanas had justifiable reasons for her actions, then you by default must do the same for Arthas. Both did bad things that they otherwise wouldn’t have done if they were both still alive with completely intact souls. And both made what can be considered necessary sacrifices while they were still alive.
Yes, just yes. Everyone deserves a chance at redemption. It’s really that simple.
If anyone think Sylvanas is allowed to have one, then being against Arthas getting one is 110% hypocritical and there’s no denying it.
Arthas wasn’t “evil full stop”, and that narrative is just getting incredibly irritating.
… He did with her what he did with everyone else. Raised her into undeath. That was the whole point, and that was after his humanity was forcible stripped from him by the very same man Sylvanas have been serving since… according to Blizz, all of WoW.
