I dont think I’ve seen any place that recommends it over misery in any situation. Any ideas on how to make it useful?
Remove the cooldown and make it cost 10 insanity?
2 Likes
Even then, how does that even compete with Misery?
You would still be limited to Shadow Crash and it’s inherit Vampiric Touch target cap and it’s cooldown. Meaning you would still have to manually cast Vampiric Touch on targets beyond what Shadow Crash will do. Which you would do regardless if you have Misery or Dark Void.
If even Dark Void had no cooldown and didn’t cost insanity, it still doesn’t fill the hole that Shadow Crash and Misery provide. Everything is limited to Vampiric Touch spread and that is constricted to Shadow Crash solely.
The only reason I can see Dark Void being a better choice is if you are playing some build that didn’t require or matter if Vampiric Touch was on all targets or as many as can be. But does a viable built like that exist?
4 Likes
Swp still does a decent amount of damage in mass AoE, is 1/3 of our mastery value, and makes tormented spirits a more appealing option in situations where you’re repeatedly doing large pulls.
But is having only SW:P and not VT on targets worth it?
That would have to be yes or Misery will always be better.
… You’ve still got shadow crash though. You’re not losing the ability to apply VT.
I’d pay 10 insanity and 1 GCD every 30 seconds (Compared to misery) to have the ability to apply 15 dots on a whim when I dont have shadow crash.
So follow me here.
Opening fight…
Start fight and use Shadow Crash + Misery (1 GDC) = 2 dots for synergy + Mastery bonus.
Vs
Start fight and use Shadow Crash + Dark Void (2 GDC) = 2 dots for synergy + Mastery bonus.
Then for ongoing fights like more adds being added to an AOE situation…
Shadow Crash + Misery combo… Shadow Crash on cooldown, so you have to either wait or cast Vampiric Touch manually.
Vs
Shadow Crash + Dark Void combo… Shadow crash on cooldown and Dark Void is not (for argument sake), so you use Dark Void on new targets which nets you some targets having Vampiric Touch (before new group of adds) and new group of adds only have SW:P from Dark Void. So now you have to manually cast Vampiric Touch on each target that only has SW:P which ends up being same situation as Shadow Crash + Misery in that you need to still spent GCD’s on casting Vampiric Touch only it’s a worse version that’s more cumbersome and takes another key bind and now you have to manage 2 dot timers instead of just 1 that Misery simplifies it into.
No matter what, picking up Dark Void does not reduce your need to use multiple GCD to cast Vampiric Touch on multiple targets during the cooldown of Shadow Crash.
So again, picking up Dark Void only makes sense IF you don’t care about making sure your targets have VT on them. If you want VT on them then Dark Void is a worse choice in every regard.
So casting Dark Void while Shadow crash on cooldown forces you to still manually cast VT on each target… which the result would be the same with Misery. Perhaps you save a little time initially as you get some SW:P dot ticking happening and trigger some procs. But that gain is imo not noticeable for the amount of plates you have to now juggle in an extra keybind and dots not matching timers all over the place so now you got some mobs with x dot and some mobs with y dot and you have to manually cast the correct single dot spell or possibly waste casting Shadow Crash or Dark Void as it might refresh dot instead of apply on different intended target.
It just seems like a master cluster of management for really little to no gain.
1 Like
Yes, clearly. But if I’m fighting a pack of 10-12 medium to low hp mobs I’d much rather just throw 1-2 vts as my tank runs in, dark void once, and spam sear with the insanity I gained from the mobs dying in the previous pull.
I do not need VT active on everything to do mass AoE. But having swp on everything during mass AoE would be a massive improvement I’m willing to give up misery for.
There are enough situations where you want to spam sear, but can’t justify it because you don’t have any dots up at all. And having the ability to just put a load of dots up, even pains, without a cd would be worth dropping misery.
1 Like
I guess my question is… how much is that really worth giving up Misery for?
If you can swap talents on the fly in M+ then sure, I can see doing that level of min/max. But last I checked, you are locked into your talents for the entire run. It would have to be a great deal majority of the dungeon that you are killing things at the pace you just described to have Dark Void be of such a value over Misery to justify the loss of synced up dots and having another keybind to manage.
If you had to put a percentage of the time that would be worth it, I find it hard to think it would be anything above 5%. Which makes it near useless if not absolutely so. To the point it shouldn’t even be an option imo.
Any pull I don’t have shadow crash?
Personally I’d prefer if they just made dark void into mind sear applies swp. But even if it let me put up pains without a cd I’d take it in a heartbeat.
Any pull you don’t have Shadow Crash AND you don’t need it to apply VT.
Because if you need VT at all, then that won’t work out better than having Misery.
I’m not saying it won’t work for those situations you are envisioning, but I question how well everything that doesn’t fit into that scenario plays out with the clunky nature of not having Misery when you have that option.
Meaning is it worth playing 2x as hard for 5% of the time vs playing 2x easier for 95% of the time. To me it seems you will save more time and effort over the course of the dungeon with the ease that Misery brings vs the extra time you would save for the small edge cases that you would have Dark Void for.
Thus that’s why if changing talents on the fly was an option then I can see that level of talent swapping happening. But for the rest of the dungeon not having Misery will have a net result of costing more time and be more cumbersome and less fun.
I really would just chalk it up to the fact that if things will die that fast where you don’t need to fully dot them up with VT then is it really that necessary to get Dark Void? If those mobs die that fast, then the other DPS burst AOE damage dealers in your party have that covered.
I think you’re massively overthinking it. I just want my dots on things without having to rely on a 30 second cd.
I play Afflock, I press seeds for mass AoE and my corruption goes up on everything with no cd.
I play moonkin, I sunfire once and it’s up on everything with no cooldown.
2 Likes
If Dark Void didn’t have a cooldown then that would only then still only give 1 dot on mass. With how Vampiric Touch works with procs activation, Psychic Link activation, Mastery activation, Insanity generation and raw damage… it would stand to reason that you want to have VT on as many targets and as often as possible. Problem is that the only way we can mass cast VT is with Shadow Crash. So having Dark Void doesn’t fix that “void” of not being able to cast VT on mass. All it does is remove the ability of casting VT or Shadow Crash also applies SW:P.
It’s not really a question of wanting Dark Void or not, it’s really about giving up Misery or not. If Dark Void was not a choice with Misery then I can see it having a place in some builds and situations. But having to compete with Misery just gums up the gears over everything else.
To me, it would make more sense to move Dark Void to compete with Shadow Crash.
They each would apply VT and have synergy with Misery.
Shadow Crash stays as is, Dark Void removed its cooldown and costs insanity.
So you choose between instant with cooldown vs casted, no cooldown but cost insanity and perhaps uncap targets with Dark Void.
I think that would be the best solution.
With that change, Mind Sear goes back to an AOE damage/ builder.
In M+… Nope.
Too little Use Cases in a M+. In a higher key, 20+, every pack will receive a Shadow Crash + Misery Combo. In a mid key 15-20, every other pack will receive a Shadow Crash + Misery. Even in Gambit, doing mass Murlock pulls, Misery + Shadow Crash I found better, BUT I did find N’Zoth better than Yogg ONLY in Gambit.
Maybe in a low key instance or a Raid Boss fight, DV may have more value.
I had a Dark Void redesign idea, but unfortunately it would require a Shadow Priest rework so it would be Out of Scope for DF.
Follow me here:
- Mind Sear is now an AOE Filler like Mind Flay. Back to “normal”.
- Dark Void is a spender - Instant Cast, 50 Insanity. Summons a Dark Void (think Shadowy Arcane/Frost Orb) that explodes (pops like a Seed of Corruption) for X damage to target and 10 other targets. Increased damage if target has VT + SWP through other talents.
- Shadow Crash has 2 charges. Up target cap to 10 targets.
- Misery stays the same.
- Misery Talent Node competes old Misery [Insert Spell Filler Name]. Targets with VT take +5% increased Spell Damage from all sources, i.e. DH Spell Damage Taken Debuff.
This would allow multiple things in my opinion.
- Dark Ascension will benefit from at least 1 spender, the AOE spender.
- Smoothes out VF rotation.
Don’t get me wrong I do like my Mind Devourer Mind Sear procs, but I prefer VF the rotation in AOE. So instead of DP you cast this new Dark Void for AOE. Very similar to an Elemental Shaman ES/EQ, Boomy Starsurge/Starfall, and to an extent it’s like Fire Mage doing Combust’s ST rotation for AOE. - Shadow Crash is up for every pack, and even for Raid Encounters when adds spawn. Less worries about holding Shadow Crash to refresh mob’s DOTs because you have a charge banked. Now that Shadow Crash hits 10 targets, current Dark Void talent is useless.
- Misery now lets you choose between Quality of Life for yourself OR Quality of Life for your party or raid. Essentially Misery VT + SWP for M+, and the OLD Misery Spell Debuff for Raid since in Single target, Misery has less value.
I’ve been playing lots of Elesham and Affliction lock right now. Those specs just got it right. I sincerely believe this is the way for SP.
isn’t the real problem the part where dark void is a choice node with misery? If dark void was hypothetically made the better choice I would view it as a negative change as misery is basically a quality of life talent and losing it would make shadow priest feel worse to play. I suspect I am not alone in hoping misery is always the better choice while they are coupled.
Dark void on paper isn’t a bad button it generates insanity and does solid uncapped damage in addition to its pain spread. If I could get dark void shadow crash and misery I suspect I would happily do so and it would be nice to have a small aoe combo of crash and dark void into what should be a full mind sear as an opener to most aoe pulls.
Also on the above stuff I would argue for shadow priest being able to mass dot stuff, just having pain on everything feels bad even if it can be the right move. It was part of the reason as to why searing nightmare was so reviled.
How I would improve Dark Void:
- Give it 2 Charges
- Bake the Searing Nightmare effect into it where targets that already have SW: P take 100% additional damage.