I’m actually shocked how much more fun I’m having on my Wrath paladin vs my paladin on retail. Makes me wonder why Blizz ditched mana management for Prot and Ret for yet another run of the mill combo point type system in Cata.
The class is just plain more fun to play when mana is the primary resource to be managed, Holy Power has become such a bore to me as of late and it’s a real bummer. Thinking about my mana while in combat makes me feel like a paladin, worrying about Holy Power just makes me feel like a shiny warrior.
Mana is boring to me, I like playstyle. That said, monk is better at synergy with a melee playstyle, whereas hpal is just a combo class, or ret that heals.
I like HP in as much as I like the idea of having meaty abilities with, technically, no CD. Were they to get rid of HP all together and give TV and DS a CD I believe it would feel a lot worse. Were they to then reduce the CDs of all of our abilities and smooth out the rotation while also introducing spell-order interactions? I’d be down for that.
No there are a lot of us that hate holy power. I am one, but you get those that are fanatical on keeping hp no matter what. Yet they are complaining about hp generation in df.
I hate hp and have since its infection of the paladin class. If we reverted back to mana like what happened with Enhancement getting rid of the blue rage bar and back to mana management, the class would be better. To be able to use any ability to start off a fight is better than having to build the combo points to spend on an ability.
But you will see people coming in here and telling you hp is the best thing that happened to paladins and that your opinion doesn’t matter because they play at a higher level than you and their opinion is the one that matters.
I feel like we’d have more issue with a rage or energy bar than we would combo points. Honestly, though, an energy bar with high regen would probably help things.
Politely disagree here. I think the maelstrom effect for shamans would be more in line with paladins. Could have been zeal. Zeal used for TV or DS or heals or other abilities. More room for flow, generators, etc. Talents could have changed generation or zeal spending. Lots of room for inspiration here instead of combo points.
I liked hp when we could spend 1, 2 and 3 of it instead of just 3 and when we had more things to spend it on like Harsh Words, also having filler spammable spells like denounce and when judgment actually did things
Hp limited to 3 only and can’t even use wog offensively is meh to me
The funny thing is, in many ways Rogues have become more like us, rather than the other way round. Before Cata, their combo points were on the target, so when they target-switched they had to build them from scratch. When we got HoPo in Cata, they got combo points that stayed with them - i.e. they got combo points that were like our (then new) Holy Power.
All through late Cata, MoP, and WoD we didn’t feel much like Rogues anyway, because we pretty much never waited on anything to press a button - the question for us was which button to press out of a choice. Rogues, however, for at least some of each expansion, had to wait on Energy. Of course these post-Legion days we have to wait too.
The real problem is that Legion made pretty much everyone into a builder-spender, and the effects of this are still with us - all DPS rotations feel much the same at their core. Consider Fury, which has buttons that build Rage and buttons that spend it - not how Warriors used to function, and which arguably plays like Ret used to (in terms of the DPS rotation).
Yes I like hp. Wrath ret imo is as uninspired rotationally as vanilla and tbc. The tree is very boring. Funny enough cataclys ret is my second favorite iteration ever after wod ret
BFA Prot Paladin was the pinnacle of Paladin design in my opinion. This is in large part due to no Holy Power. Instead, you had charges of your core abilities that you managed, being able to choose to burn excess charges to reduce the cooldown of more important abilities like Word of Glory and Avenging Wrath.
Prot Paladin also got more use out of many of the Azerite Armor powers thanks to its 2 charges of Judgment on a much lower cooldown and ability to generate additional charges. This made effects like splash healing from Judgments or Judgments dealing more damage to lower health enemies more impactful and made them feel like an integral part of the class design rather than barely noticeable occurrences that were tacked on for flavor.
I’m with you…I prefer the less intricate, cooldown based system. But I understand why Holy Power was introduced; it allows the devs to make you choose between big abilities (essentially a shared cooldown)
I will never forget that old swifty video when wrath was very early about making a cast random macro and spaming it to “own the n00bs”. I watched that later when I was playing on a cataclysm pserver and wondered man I didnt know that was possible lol. Weird times.
What I like in Wrath ret paladin is how every damaging ability feels important. It isn’t just about juggling weak generators leading up to a big spender, it is a priority system of relatively equally strong spells.
Cata make the spec a non joke, it was actually a solid spec back then with things like AM, good dmg outside of wings, great wings dmg (duh), solid but not “op” mobility, and it was easy to spot bad rets who did no dmg bc they couldn’t understand how to dmg from the decent or good ones.
Wrath ret is basically a DH with a dispel and no dashes, sorry not sorry.
Yeah I have yet to actually like the HP system for holy, i mean it’s okay and “worked” in SL but with half the tree now catering to HL/FoL I would prefer HP be removed and abilities swapped back to a CD. Wotlk holy is simple asf but still more enjoyable than the current iteration. Keep SOTR, make it buffed from Infusion of Light. Maybe even have LoD benefit from Infusion of Light in some way. It’s simple but still adds some complexity.
Except Enhancement Shamans bucked that blue rage bar. We can start the fight off with any button. You may say ohh but cast time and you build maelstrom to make instant cast. Still Enhancement bucked the builder spender for its melee abilities that we were forced into in legion and bfa.
I want paladins to lose hopo and become like Enhancement Shamans where we can start the fight off with any ability and not have to build up to it. We people say hopo makes your buttons feel better. I can tell you if you remove hopo and give us a current enhancement setup we will feel a lot better.
And everyone complaining about hopo generation in df well we wouldn’t have that issue. But for some reason I cant figure it out people are fanatical about hopo and fight for it tooth and nail even though we see currently wotlk classic how much better paladins feel, and in retail how Enhancement shamans got so much better with the blue rage bar being gone.
Blizzard tried to put holy power on prot and holy and then promptly removed it. It stayed with ret since Cata and was only reintroduced to prot and holy in SL.
