You’re cherry picking old abilities to prove a point without acknowledging new ones.
You have Pistol Shot, Crimson Vial, Grappling Hook, Ghostly Strike, Blade Rush, Keep it Rolling, Death from Above. You’re embarrassing yourself.
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1000% agree with that assessment.
So many left Retail for classic…and so many retail players begging for stuff like talent trees back (which Im personally not overly fond of, but the masses paying the bills here matter more than the few).
Seems like the vast majority of all areas of the base are pretty content, if not happy with the direction of the game in most regards.
I love the last two expansions after hating BFA and SLs both.
My only real complain is how theyve trashed professions for alts.
Thats a lot of crap to repeat on alt characters and Im personally never gonna do it ever, so part of my game died with DF professions being like they made them. But it is what it is, I supposed. Seems to be the direction theyve decided to go with professions, making them TOO involved for my alts.
I don’t mind when classes with an immunity get to do a cool thing and I don’t mind that only some classes get that immunity. What I’m getting at is, for example, I can’t remember the last time I used Hibernate or Polymorph to great effect. If we had two specs, and one had Divine Shield and one had Polymorph, but Divine Shield is frequently useful and Polymorph never is, then the solution isn’t to give the Mage Divine Shield, it’s to create situations that Polymorph can solve that Divine Shield can’t.
(Also I forgot that Mages already have an immunity, don’t worry about it and just take the analogy at face value.)
The issue is more about specs that choose to be good at a niche functionality that is rarely ever useful and even when it is, more commonly available utility is good enough. But instead of making those niche utilities useful, Blizzard instead chose to give everyone the utility that was broadly useful.
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Some classes have too many buttons, some don’t
Some classes have too many spinning plates, some don’t
I tend to believe the classes on the more complicated end aren’t as fun because after a while it just feels like you’re playing this rock band minigame and it’s distracting from the content
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and thats a good point too.
half of them in here complaining that its ‘too much’ and the other half is begging for all healers to have a Brez…but isnt that just one more key to press? lmao.
This is why bliz HAS to listen to the MAJORITY…because THAT is where the $$$ is coming from.
Cater to the smaller group and the masses quit and take their $$$ elsewhere…and that aint good for anyone.
If you put Brez on every healer, now every healer is starting to look the same. I can see why they dont do it.
And the retail devs did a terrible job with the new trees.
I would take the 3 row talents back over this garbage we have now.
Retail WoW is just so bloated, the forum police will say no, but it really is.
Retail is struggling hard to gain and retain new players.
The last boss is missing a phase, that’s the only lack of difficulty complaint. However there have been numerous complaints regarding needing huge amounts of specific utility to kill bosses for the past few tiers. Which is exactly the sort of thing I’ve been talking about.
Not to mention the core mechanic of gallywix mythic is a mage has to move through a literal minefield in approximately 3 seconds or the whole raid dies.
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Really? I think the current talent trees are fantastic. What don’t you like about them?
I found logging on and seeing a ton of abilities that were baseline added as talents extremely disappointing
Seems like they just went with a tree aesthetic they wanted then just figured out how to fill it in later
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Mages don’t even play immunity anymore, bliz gave them a shield wall on a shorter cd that is better 99% of the time.
Yet more defensive creep.
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The 5% or less passive talents that don’t add much.
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I actually feel sorry for DKs in this regard because they always seem to be either absolutely required or completely pointless in raid. Either there’s a boss that’s made 1000x easier by an AoE grip so you NEED a DK or there isn’t and the DKs are laughed out of the group because they bring nothing else to the table.
A bit of an over-reliance on lock-and-key ability design.
That is for another discussion…and Im one who hates talent trees anyway.
I preferred the talent rows…pick one of three…move to the next row, repeat.
But I also understand Im evidently in the minority about that, so I’ll do what I have to do…even if its using the default tree and tweaking it from there if i have no clue.
And how is the tree versus the rows relevant here?
Even with talent rows you still have so many abilities in there unless they passive all of it…and that would bore me to death if too much of it was passive.
Trees versus rows has no bearing on how many abilities they might shove in here
lets not forget that WoW ISNT the only game on the market and the graphics alone might run some players over to ESO or some other game they prefer newer realistic graphics on.
Personally I hate tab targeting, I prefer crosshairs…and if this game had less personality Id likely quit over that one little thing.
Other folks quit over various reasons…its not always the fault of the game maker, or that theyre doing anything wrong.
agree.
I just looked at Devastation talents can you can literally see the “hey, we have an empty box here…make something up quick…uh…how about +5 to X that wont make any difference at all to anything?”
lol…
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What’s the functional difference between an ability that’s baseline and an ability that you always talent though?
Not every talent needs to be exciting. Indeed I’d say that’s impossible. Remember that talents are serving triple duty now as an avenue to customize your spec, a way to tailor your build to specific content, and a way to gradually introduce you to your class abilities as you level. What exactly is in the talent tree is not nearly as important as WHERE it appears. We’re not supposed to have all 61 talent points competing for each other at the same time. So yeah, there’s going to be baseline abilities in the tree and it’s no surprise that most of them are found near the top.
I don’t like how they removed baseline abilities from our specs and just added them as talents.
I think the class tree is boring, and doesn’t have a ton of real choices that really change your gameplay. I think adding class trees to every spec really increased the utility bloat.
The spec tree just feels bloated and this trees offer this illusion of all this choice, but most of it comes down to just picking AOE build or ST build.
They just feel boring and overly complex for no reason other than to give leveling characters the feel of progression.
The modern devs tried to remake Vanilla trees, but didn’t really know how to go about it. I think they just became overly fixated on just making trees because players were demanding it, but failed to address the underlying issue that players were really complaining about with the 3 row system, which was a lot of the talents were kind of useless.
I think WoW is suffering from spec bloat too, trying to make all these specs feel distinct with the current talent trees has led to a lot of homogenization.
They need to shake things up like they’re doing with SoD. Give mages a healing spec, Warlocks a tank spec, make some of the dps specs that are part of the pure DPS classes into real supports.
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For some specs, more buttons has removed depth, rather than added it. Everyone cries about how Frost Mages used to be “braindead” because of FB spam, but instead, they now no longer care about mana and don’t have to strategize before wasting their instants. Maybe spamming instants as Frost is the real braindeath, “ohhhh but you have to press them in the correct order!!!” yeah that’s why everyone has Hekili or a weakaura. Subtlety has a bazillion buttons but is a pale shadow (hehe) of its WoD incarnation. Warlock has all these pretty buttons lighting up but they never lifetap and shards are just another builderspender. Frost DKs are casting D&D but doing less thinking than in the Masterfrost days. Etc.
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True, but there are those talents that generally serve little to no purpose than to absorb talent points in order to access more of the talent tree.
Percentage-based passive buffs are rarely felt or even contribute to how secondary stats are utilized.
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I think not. At the risk of contradicting my past self, I wouldn’t say that there isn’t ability bloat, per se, but more of an overlapping priority bloat. It’s more nuance than just “having too many buttons“. Some specs don’t feel this at all, Some specs just have way too many buttons.
Now I realize that sounds contradictory, but let me explain. There are several classes (ex: rogue, shaman) with a very rigid DPS profile. It does stem, in part, from the number of short, cool downs, and the necessity of cool windows needing to hold the correct number of actions. Sometimes, playing some the specs after not playing them for a while. You kinda have to learn to weave all the abilities together before you can do anything appreciable.
People who play a lot of different classes tend to set up their bar is kind of the same. Like all of my classes have interrupt on the F key, all of my classes main DPS cool down is shift three. Then I play a class that has two major DPS, cool downs, so I have a shift three and a shift four. But shift four is what I usually use for my short movement cooldown, like Wild charge. Even though it’s only one collision, suddenly it feels like “too many buttons”.
They’ve done a lot of work on the most egregious specs, like disc and shadow priest, and there’s always more work to do. But I think overall it’s really not a matter of too many buttons, sometimes some classes have too many buttons for a certain thing. Are there are classes who have multiple abilities that do the same thing, or similar enough things, that they should be combined probably. Sunfire and Moonfire, for example.
Rather than make a blanket statement that there are “too many buttons“, I think it would be better to have a case by case discussion (or class by class discussion) on whether some buttons should be combined or removed or made baseline. The way the game is going with moving more of the challenge into environmental awareness and away from rotational knowledge means that we probably need to see more consolidation.
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AKA, a boring choice that serves no purpose at all.
The retail devs were trying to bring back Vanilla trees, which had these passive 5% talents, but they failed to realize that everyone complained about these talent choices in Vanilla. That is why they got rid of them in the 3 row talent system.
They designed resource management out of the game.
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