Do you think Classiclysm is likely?

WoW Classic Mists of Pandaria Classic Discussion
81

Not an opinion, sorry. Any game that does what Cataclysm did and drives away THAT many players is a failure, no matter what Blizzard tries to spin you with “We sold X copies!”

I was one of those people. You obviously weren’t. If you had played it, you would know better. It was a hot mess, and people were dropping out of the game in droves.

Yep, leave. You don’t know what you’re talking about anyway.

I gave you an opinion about whether they will release it, and you disagreed. Fine. But then I gave you facts about the expansion being terrible and this is your reaction.

Be better.

82

Seems pretty obvious that they will release cata and MoP classic purely due to the low dev efforts required. It doesnt matter if players quit.

The first major road bump is WoD, which is basically an incomplete expansion. Not sure what they’d do there, but MoP is a relatively beloved expansion that would draw quite a few players.

83

MoP and Cata were great and will be played very much. Probably more so than Wrath.

1 Like
84

100% cata is coming.

It would take blizzard 10 minutes to patch into the game and they would make millions from mount sales, subs, and anything else.

Its a no brainer to have the game go as long as people sub to it.

85

According to the official numbers that blizzard was still releasing at that time the number of subs dropped from 12 million at the end of Wrath to 9 million at the end of Cata. They dropped to 7 million by the end of MoP. If wow had topped out at the 7 million it had at the end of vanilla it still would be considered the most popular and profitable MMO of all time. While wow dropped to 9 million subs in Cata no other MMO reached 9 million subs. Are they all failures too?

3 Likes
86

I could see them going to MoP if their research shows the demand is there but as far as the classic games are concerned it ends with WotLK. Its all fan fic from there on out.

1 Like
87

I didn’t think so when classic came out but things being what they are now I’d say all bets are off. A few of the things about Cata that kind of annoyed me are

  • no more ammo for my hunter.
  • when my hunter turned 81, my crit % got halved.
  • Cata greens regularly dropped that were 10x better than the heroic purples I worked hard to get in WotLK.
  • My mage got turned into BCB’s (burnt, crunchy bits) when Deathwing decided to pay a visit to Uldum where I was questing.
  • ‘They’ destroyed Auberdine.
  • Talent trees were dumbed down.

I don’t think I’d play classic cata, but I might play classic MoP, and if they came out with the latter I’m sure they’d come out with the former as well.

1 Like
88

The thing is, these are all the qualities that most of the 2005-2010 playerbase cares about. Just look at how the community is playing classic, the vast majority don’t give an %$# about any of these.

They completely ignore leveling when possible, ignore Wpvp or server hop until they are on a single faction server, constantly demand modern QoL improvements, will go to obscene lengths for minor power increases and largely remove themselves from the world and only engage in instanced content anyway.

Sad to say but people who enjoy these things (me included) are the dying breed.

1 Like
89

Talent trees were dumbed down to the retail version in mists of pandaria FYI. We still had the points system in cata.

90

Literally only a handful of players think like this. To Blizzard, Cataclysm is like any other expansion.

1 Like
91
  • Ammo is a dumb limiting mechanic and most will be tickled pink to “lose” it
  • Our stats reduced in Vanilla → TBC and TBC → Wrath.
  • Have you not seen green “of the Beast” items and how they compare to AQ40 and Naxx epics?
  • Deathwing visits were awesome.
  • A lot of places got destroyed, its in the name.
  • Weird way to spell improved
92

I disagree.

The cataclysm overhaul was one of the largest overhauls, and they tried to fundamentally change how people heal in dungeons and raids.

They were unsuccessful and ended up just giving up on the idea of “Triage” healing as they put it.

Cataclysm was the absolute worst overhaul we’ve ever had, and we’ve been stuck with the stupid system since Cataclysm. :woman_shrugging:

It’s a garbage system, pre-cataclysm was a much better system for healing.

2 Likes
93

Cata is what caused me to unsub. I fully understand that some enjoyed Cata. Some did not. I myself didn’t enjoy it one bit. My opinion it ruined wow.

1 Like
94

This was because Healers prior to Cataclysm essentially had no interaction with their Mana bars, which is why Tanks didn’t care about Avoidance and only stacked EH and Threat stats, causing the Devs to create encounters that severely punished Tanks more and more until we got Soul Reaper being nigh-impossible to survive without strictly coordinated CDs and a bit of luck (Heroic 25M).

The Devs did miss the mark initially trying to get triage healing to work, primarily because players just optimized right on through it and ignored it. This is why both Tanks and Healers got more “rotation” style skill setups as we progressed in Cata and moved into MoP, because the roles became maintenance oriented with key tools to use to handle specific bad situations in each fight.

Healers hitting 1-2 buttons nonstop without going OOM and being 99.9% effective wasn’t a good system.

Plus, we aren’t getting 4.0 Healing, we’re getting Dragon Soul Healing, which is much closer to Wrath but with the inclusion of more skills and interactions for Healers to manage (in general).

95

I mean, we’re talking about healers sitting in heroic ICC gear, not having major mana problems. People gem, enchant, and itemizing their gear to increase their ability to perform their role for longer fights is now a bad thing?

I don’t agree at all, I think the entire “Triage” healing garbage was absolute nonsense.

IF you wanted players mana bars to matter, drop the effectiveness of spirit, and make MP5 less common? Make it itemize other stats on items.

The set stupid mana bar with everything costing a % of your max MP is stupid.

96

I also didn’t like how “threat vs mitigation” became a sort of non-issue because threat essentially stopped mattering because it became impossible to lose it for anyone in a tanking spec.

I think this kinda started in WOTLK though.

1 Like
97

Most Healers didn’t have mana problems even in Ulduar.

Not at all what I said.

The system allowed us to optimize so much that we did the most sensible thing and eliminated problems in our respective kits. The issue with players being so powerful is that the content needs to still be hard for us to overcome so the challenge is actually met. My point was that with Healers able to accomplish X, it cascades into Tanks doing Y, which means Devs have a multi-variate runaway scaling problem for making fights actually hard.

If Healers needed to continue watching their longevity even in late game, Tanks would have needed to balance their EH and Avoidance better, and Blizz wouldn’t have needed Heroic Lich King 1-shotting people just to make it a challenge.

I want to say this was outright considered and discussed, but I wasn’t on the Healer boards much and only caught most of this from the Tank side when GC posted about it. I will say that if I had to guess the reason they didn’t go this route is that people had already been complaining about stats being weakened and nerfed throughout Wrath. Druids in general kept getting our Armor dinked with and every other Druid was just utterly doom-and-gloom about it. Paladins had gotten some adjustments as well that resulted in some stats just being flatly less good for them.

I’m fine with the idea that Blizzard missed the mark with triage healing, Blizzard didn’t exactly hide that fact when they took a different course mid-Cata. But it revealed a problem with giving us too much good stuff within the design space.

Remember we were all capped on everything before we even hit BiS ICC gear. Those kind of extremes really screw with the design space the Devs feel comfortable using.

I’m torn on this one because threat is such a boring metric, unlike DPS. You only need enough threat to hold and not a drop more. Being miles ahead on threat doesn’t really help your raid, the boss doesn’t die faster, etc. On the rare occasion you have an untauntable boss that randomly chunks your threat away, having super high threat generation is nice, but the fight is literally DESIGNED around frequent swapping so it isn’t some grand achievement if you hold extra long or not.

I get that threat is a mini-game that new and middling Tanks struggle with and feel good when they consistently win, but for anyone with experience it is a foregone conclusion. It is why Tanks can do the role of raid leading pretty easily since we really don’t have a lot going on.

I have no idea the kind of DPS that Tanks deal on Retail currently, but in Cata/MoP/WoD, Tanks were notably able to leverage good DPS if played properly. I’m fine with DPS being a consistent and scalable measure of Tank performance, aside from the movement, CD usage, and other micro requirements that go with Tanking.

98

I mean there’s always “you must play with bad tanks” as a possible response to this but…

I am fully capable of pulling aggro from anyone if I really feel like it, with salv on, and have the ability to do so on very geared (for threat) tanks.

It’s less about what it does to gameplay for exclusively tank players though. It also is a “minigame” for DPS. One that I very frequently am faced with given the slew of “threat reset” mechanics abound. Not having to deal with those mechanics is just flatly removing things for me to think about, hence, just making things more boring.

In TBC we are still at a point where very potent DPS players can still really push the capabilities of tanks to hold aggro.

In WOTLK/Cata and on it’s a non-issue, a faceroll noob can hold aggro long as he touches relevant buttons on his keyboard.

99

At the beginning? Absolutely. Our initial burst is something to behold when you combine that with early resists/parries on the Tank-side of the equation.

Sure, to a point.

But the mini-game for you, as opposed to say a Rogue or Mage, is to just hit ESC if you climb too high. That kinda falls under the “no fun” category Blizzard tried moving players away from since only some classes could do a big threat drop themselves and they weren’t keen on giving us a Kitty-Vanish button.

Said another way, only some classes have this mini-game to worry about, either because we lack threat reduction tools baked into our kit and/or are prone to big burst moments right off the bat. That imbalance never sat well with Blizzard because the Rogue pops Vanish and keeps trucking without blinking and you sit there trying not to completely pool Energy because one more Shred crit and you’re a kitty pancake.

I think we’ll see this more in Wrath than we remember seeing, but you’re right in that people can really pour on the DPS no matter what. What feels terrible about threat now is when you get things like I experienced recently where despite my Expertise and Hit, I still got Dodged and Parried on Mangle so much that my uptime was like 60%. No amount of skill stops that and it just sucks when the prior pull and the next pull I’m at 30k in a blink of an eye and haven’t stopped crit-Mauling.

I get that in Wrath we can much more easily cap our Hit and Expertise and also Glyph for Growl, but having RNG beat you never feels fun, especially with how fatal lost aggro can be.

PS - My Mother kill last night had me at 77.8% Hit/Crit on my physical abilities. Over a third of my melee swings and Swipes entirely whiffed. I hate RNG in this game.

100

I would have been happier had they just tweaked numbers than do the massive ridiculous overhauling they did in Cataclysm.

Having mana problems is not a fun experience as a healer. It never has been, it never will be, and what they did in Cataclysm made people immediately go from never going oom, because they properly itemized to allow themselves to keep casting, to going oom in like 5-6 big spells, because suddenly chain heal cost 20% of your maximum mana to cast.

I’ve hated the cataclysm onwards system, I have always through blizzard shot themselves in the foot for no damn good reason, and I basically didn’t play all of Cataclysm because I hated the overhaul so much.

It’s not gotten much better, and it’s no small surprise I find myself far more looking forward to seeing wrath again.

Standing around not being able to do anything due to “Mana issues” is not fun, I will reiterate that till I die, especially on a class that doesn’t benefit from anything outside of MP5, Totems and Mana potions, because innervate does basically jack on Shamans.

3 Likes