Do you like Holy pally healing? And how you feeling about TWW?

Classes Paladin
21

Leaving other discussion aside… My general feel for Holy Paladin going into TWW:

First thing to discuss is the Glimmer removal:

I really enjoyed Glimmer when it was originally introduced but Holy Paladins were very different at that time, they were coming from losing the Legion artifact and the spec felt totally anemic, so Glimmer introduced a new gameplay loop and made the spec have something interesting going on that you could play around and optimize. (All though admittedly it was very different from what Holy Paladin had traditinonally been in the past).

That said after all the changes, Holy Power being added, and specially after the DF rework too many different things and sources of healing were added and the spec only felt good when it was overpowered because there were simply too many supplemental healing methods competing with each other, each of them eating from the total “budget”

So the only way to fix the spec was to remove something, and glimmer had become less and less impactful to at that point I agree it was best to remove it.

So how is Beta Holy Paladin now:

Honestly, pretty good… It’s not my favorite version but it’s alright and pretty fun, I guess a bit on the simpler side but that’s typically how it has been for Holy Paladin. Also pretty well in-line with what the spec has been in the past in the sense of having those big and impactful single target heals that cleave trough beacon.

You could say AOE is limmited, and that’s true… But for raids that’s not really your role and being the best spot healer is more valuable than being the 4th AOE healer… For M+ where you are the only healer I think the option from having permanent 3 target cleave on your single target heals or 5-target BoV on a short CD gives you all the coverage you really need.

For the talents I feel some of the ones that used to work with glimmer and have been reworked might need a bit more work but overall I don’t find the spec tree so bad, the class tree is a bit worse imo and should be on the short list for those who could use some updates.

Now for the hero talents I feel they are honestly pretty good and supplement your core kit in a good way, right now Herald is a bit overtunned but it gives you some HoT gameplay.

Lightsmith gives a more support-oriented playstile but unlike other similar “support” type talents (like blessing of the seasons or Priest’s Oracle) I feel Lightsmith actually implements it pretty well. I do wish Blessing of the season was gone becuase you already are managing the Lightsmith stuff so having the Seasons stuff on top of that gets pretty annoying.

Meta prediction and personal choices:

I’m fairly confident Holy paladins due to the strong spot healig profile will once again be meta for Raid and that it will land somewhere in the top-3 for M+… But tunning will dictate the exact spot for those.

Over the past expacs I have co-mained a Paladin (Holy / Prot) along with my Priest (Disc / Holy)… And even when raiding “primiarly” on the Priest I’ve on occasion flexed-in the Holy Paladin for prog bosses.

So for TWW even though I have decided to drop the Priest and play Resto Shaman for Raid I’ll still be keeping the Pally on the same role (I also like to have a Tank toon for M+ and Prot Pally is my choice there).

2 Likes
22

The type of heals and what they do feel more like the “macro problems.” All holy Power Spenders should feel pretty good to press for the Spec as a whole.

The “micro problems” are the lack of those small choices of Crusader Strike vs Holy Bolt, SotR vs Denouce, and “Melee infusion vs Caster Infusion.”

When I read Westly’s response this is what I kindof felt like was missing from our Talent Tree and why the middle of it felt so lackluster. We aren’t making these gameplay choices, but just choose whichever generic talent provided the most throughput.

When I play my Paladin, on the micro scale it feels very cumbersome. Judgement is a good button to press, but CS, HoW and Consecration feel a bit out of place.

  • Necrolord’s Hammer in Shadowlands (S3/S4) felt good to press, and I wish Hammer of Wrath found that same feeling.

  • Eternal Blossom on Evoker feels good to press, and I wish Consecration had that same feeling.

To me, it comes down to:

  • Add Eternal Flame to the Class Tree so Paladins feel a bit more QoL
  • Redesign Vanguard’s Momentum so that it makes HoW feel powerful and purposeful, like Necrolord’s Hammer did
  • Redesign Golden Path, Seal of Mercy, and Strength of Conviction so Consecration feels better to press
  • Add a CS vs Holy Bolt talent
  • Add a SotR vs Denounce talent
  • Add a Melee infusion vs Caster infusion talent
  • Invent an awesome Melee Capstone
  • Reinvent Tyr’s into an awesome Caster Capstone
  • Maybe reduce some of the RNG, keeping in mind things like Shock Barrier
  • Maybe add additional Blessings on choice nodes with BoSac and BoP so these feel a bit more modern

I don’t think Paladins are far off from where they need to be, I just think they need those “common sense” changes.

1 Like
23

I don’t really know what that means. Because Holy is overtuned you have less GCDs to spend? Or the talents I explained just demand less of you? I could understand it taking fewer globals to top someone but that doesn’t mean you have less buttons you can or should be sending.

1 Like
24

I would like to see more abilities work with Veneration.

I would like to see Crusader Strike having a choice node with Blessed Hammer.

2 Likes
25

This has been a very interesting thread, its clear there is a lot of passion towards holy paladin.

1 Like
26

The dream I’ve wished and asked for for years :sob:.

27

After the latest Mythic Raid testing, I’m really worried because last time this happened, Hpal was nerfed by an overall 30% on HPS.

Specially considering 50% of our output is currently HS and ET.

1 Like
28

This 100%. I’m so worried because of what happened in season 2 that we’ll be left in a state where repeated aura nerfs (as opposed to targeted nerfs), would leave us feeling awful again.

There’s not a lot we can do but hope they are committed to continue with targeted nerfs where it’s needed and then when they are happy with the overall breakdown, they can do more blanket nerfs.

3 Likes
29

Been suggesting since almost the beginning of dragonflight, before our massive rework in that expansion. I would love it, but I don’t think we’ll ever get it. :anguished:

3 Likes
30

I wish Denounce would not be PvP so I could use it to range dps and heal my friend with it but oh well.

Also not sure if its a BETA bug but for me Merciful Aura wasnt healing the raid during Aura Mastery like it should which made dj a bit more annoying to heal

31

Well today is the day, how is everyone feeling?

32

Logged in just to see the changes.

Holy lights are healing about 1.5x more, holy shocks are healing for 2-3x more. Looks nice.

1 Like
33

Do you like the new style?

34

I’ve only played the beta, I took a break for Season 4. But the beta playstyle is much better than Dragonflight.

I just logged in to see how much more healing our spells did (with the same gear from season 3).

35

we still have the old set that pumps our Holy Shocks and the prism. but yeah in beta feel kind of good. they just need to tone down a little bit more the dungeons and we will be meta.

36

To be fair, the numbers I gave were using the Season 3 tier set. I’m currently not playing Season 4 so I compared it to the gear, numbers, and logs from Season 3.

37

Super disappointed by the Beacon nerf and loss of Light of the Martyr. This destroys what made Holy Paladin unique and engaging to play in my opinion.

Blizz may tune the spec to be the most potent it’s ever been, but they have managed to water the mechanics down to little more than generic healer.

1 Like
38

Beacon nerf was neccesary. So it was removing glimmer.

We had too many sources of passive aoe healing: glimmer, beacons, Tyr’s. We had so little control over player’s HP, so many buttons and underlying mechanics and none of them were strong. Our spot healing was more than 50% behind every single other healer in the game at that point. Something had to be done.

Also, LotM was not used for 4 seasons straight.

2 Likes
39

excited to break it xD with all the wrong non-meta build

40

I agree that there were too many sources. Beacon, however, is the iconic original source of additional healing and should be emphasized, not neutered into obscurity. We’re a step away from burying Beacon next to Seals, Blessings, and (meaningful) Auras.

And LotM wasn’t used because Blizzard ensured that it wouldn’t be used by tuning it to be so weak that it literally could not keep up with the pace of damage. Basic tuning could have allowed it to serve its purpose as a quick-reaction triage tool that actually moved health bars.

When tuned properly, the design of the spell worked very well with Beacon and Mastery: Lightbringer by allowing you to ensure that you had missing health to benefit from Beacon on yourself or to maximize the potency of your Mastery by casting your heals on yourself to recoup from health sacrificed via LotM.