Simply put, raiding on private servers is much easier than it was in vanilla.
This is due to various 1.12 talent and gear changes being active for early raids that they were not originally intended to be active for.
As things stand now, Blizzard is not going to address this issue, which means raiding will be much, much easier. Fire resist gear will likely not be necessary for MC, mana management will be a non issue due to everything dying so quick, mechanics can be largely ignored etc. Early raids especially will be a close cousin to a retail LFR experience, puggable by just about anyone with little thought or attention to detail or mechanics.
Is this what we want? To me, this is not what Vanilla was. The 1.12 buffs make things far easier than they should be, to the point where it could be detrimental to the game.
I think they need to address this issue. They need to account for the fact that things in 1.12 cause earlier raids to be trivialized. The simplest solution I see is to simply buff raids to account for all the extra power 1.12 provides. I think this would be closer to playing Vanilla as it actually was.
Most people only have a private server experience, which is full of bs changes (hunter early pet stats with 1.12 is probably the most flagrant).
As such, many of these people have no clue what they are asking for.
As such, many of these people have no clue what they are asking for.
Vanilla. Pserver or 1.12 isnt it.
I want vanilla as it existed in 1.12, with artificially restricted content.
Lucky for me, that's exactly what we're getting!
Lucky for me, that's exactly what we're getting!
If it's not how it was on release day November 23, 2004, then it's not Vanilla. It's not the experience that most people are wanting, and it will be scoffed at and demoralized until Blizz pulls the plug. As it should be.
11/05/2018 10:20 AMPosted by LagspikeI want vanilla as it existed in 1.12, with artificially restricted content.
Lucky for me, that's exactly what we're getting!
And with work being done to port it to the modern infrastructure so that Blizz can easily upgrade it the next time the infrastructure changes!
11/05/2018 10:21 AMPosted by SpeedyfoofIf it's not how it was on release day November 23, 2004, then it's not Vanilla. It's not the experience that most people are wanting, and it will be scoffed at and demoralized until Blizz pulls the plug. As it should be.
You were never going to get that to begin with. The earliest data they had in their backups was Patch 1.12. All previous data is permanently gone.
11/05/2018 10:21 AMPosted by SpeedyfoofIf it's not how it was on release day November 23, 2004, then it's not Vanilla. It's not the experience that most people are wanting, and it will be scoffed at and demoralized until Blizz pulls the plug. As it should be.
Why are you so wrong?
1.12+ (which coincidentally is exactly what we are getting.)
A modernized, enhanced version of 1.12.
Nothing from private servers, especially the disasters that are private server starting zones. Sharding will be a boon for the starting zones.
Private servers are nothing like Vanilla was, on top of that their communities are terrible.
A modernized, enhanced version of 1.12.
Nothing from private servers, especially the disasters that are private server starting zones. Sharding will be a boon for the starting zones.
Private servers are nothing like Vanilla was, on top of that their communities are terrible.
11/05/2018 09:53 AMPosted by BarkamusSimply put, raiding on private servers is much easier than it was in vanilla.
This is due to various 1.12 talent and gear changes being active for early raids that they were not originally intended to be active for.
As things stand now, Blizzard is not going to address this issue, which means raiding will be much, much easier. Fire resist gear will likely not be necessary for MC, mana management will be a non issue due to everything dying so quick, mechanics can be largely ignored etc. Early raids especially will be a close cousin to a retail LFR experience, puggable by just about anyone with little thought or attention to detail or mechanics.
Is this what we want? To me, this is not what Vanilla was. The 1.12 buffs make things far easier than they should be, to the point where it could be detrimental to the game.
I think they need to address this issue. They need to account for the fact that things in 1.12 cause earlier raids to be trivialized. The simplest solution I see is to simply buff raids to account for all the extra power 1.12 provides. I think this would be closer to playing Vanilla as it actually was.
I chalk this up to them wishing to "prove" that "we think we want it, but we don't".
I'd rather have what changes are nessicary to have a vanilla experience as close as possible in 2018.
Pserver experience was more faithful to the original and a large part of why things were alot easier.
Player knowledge, class knowledge, 1.12 buffs, etc etc all play into this.
Pserver experience was more faithful to the original and a large part of why things were alot easier.
Player knowledge, class knowledge, 1.12 buffs, etc etc all play into this.
11/05/2018 10:20 AMPosted by LagspikeI want vanilla as it existed in 1.12, with artificially restricted content.
Lucky for me, that's exactly what we're getting!
So, private server easy mode for you then.
11/05/2018 10:37 AMPosted by Xanthak11/05/2018 10:20 AMPosted by LagspikeI want vanilla as it existed in 1.12, with artificially restricted content.
Lucky for me, that's exactly what we're getting!
So, private server easy mode for you then.
Except private servers are illegal and you aren't guaranteed to have a character to go back to tomorrow.
Everyone is aware that 1.12.1 private servers are currently harder than WOW Classic is, right? Saying they're easy mode is false.
I want private server, tbh. They've iterated over it a dozen times, they've solved every issue that Blizzard is facing at some point. They've dealt with mass players in the starting zone. It's redundant and stressful for Blizzard to complete the same steps only to reach the same conclusions.
Everyone on Nost -> Elysium -> Light's Hope was more or less happy with the game as a whole (not the admins past Nost); I see no reason why it should be done differently. If they were releasing 1.0 of WOW it'd be different, but they're not.
Also, the Nost devs weren't some basement dwellers slamming their face against their keyboards. They were/are professional developers and demonstrated professionalism in their documentation and software engineering processes. Just look at the level of detail and work they put into the Nostalrius post-mortem that led to them eventually meeting with Blizzard in-person.
I want private server, tbh. They've iterated over it a dozen times, they've solved every issue that Blizzard is facing at some point. They've dealt with mass players in the starting zone. It's redundant and stressful for Blizzard to complete the same steps only to reach the same conclusions.
Everyone on Nost -> Elysium -> Light's Hope was more or less happy with the game as a whole (not the admins past Nost); I see no reason why it should be done differently. If they were releasing 1.0 of WOW it'd be different, but they're not.
Also, the Nost devs weren't some basement dwellers slamming their face against their keyboards. They were/are professional developers and demonstrated professionalism in their documentation and software engineering processes. Just look at the level of detail and work they put into the Nostalrius post-mortem that led to them eventually meeting with Blizzard in-person.
11/05/2018 10:40 AMPosted by Lagspike11/05/2018 10:37 AMPosted by Xanthak...
So, private server easy mode for you then.
Except private servers are illegal and you aren't guaranteed to have a character to go back to tomorrow.
What guarantee does retail offer? I know the blizz server will still exist, but a patch could redesign everything and make me hate my main (which is why many of us have stopped playing retail).
This is the entire reason people are pushing for an authentic vanilla experience from blizzard.
Why would anyone want a 10k+ pop cesspool of a vanilla experience? Don't get me wrong, it was fun at times, but it's just not a realistic representation of vanilla.
Everyone is aware that 1.12.1 private servers are currently harder than WOW Classic is, right? Saying their easy mode is false.
I want private server, tbh. They've iterated over it a dozen times, they've solved every issue that Blizzard is facing at some point. They've dealt with mass players in the starting zone. It's redundant and stressful for Blizzard to complete the same steps only to reach the same conclusions.
Everyone on Nost -> Elysium -> Light's Hope was more or less happy with the game as a whole (not the admins past Nost); I see no reason why it should be done differently.
I think we're talking about different things though (difficulty in leveling, vs re-tuned difficulty in raids).
But yes, at the moment authentic classic private servers are recreating vanilla more accurately than the blizzard classic demo is. The classic demo has flagrant errors such as high hp regen, 200% base spell crit damage, and incorrect itemization.
Everyone is aware that 1.12.1 private servers are currently harder than WOW Classic is, right? Saying their easy mode is false.
I want private server, tbh. They've iterated over it a dozen times, they've solved every issue that Blizzard is facing at some point. They've dealt with mass players in the starting zone. It's redundant and stressful for Blizzard to complete the same steps only to reach the same conclusions.
Everyone on Nost -> Elysium -> Light's Hope was more or less happy with the game as a whole (not the admins past Nost); I see no reason why it should be done differently.
Because the point of the project USED to be about the vanilla authentic experience.
Private servers arent it. And they are easy mode. The fact that it's currently harder than classic (Not original vanilla) speaks volumes about the sad shape of clsssic.
Mages in greens and specced arcane power. Let that sink in. That's wacked.
11/05/2018 10:55 AMPosted by XanthakEveryone is aware that 1.12.1 private servers are currently harder than WOW Classic is, right? Saying their easy mode is false.
I want private server, tbh. They've iterated over it a dozen times, they've solved every issue that Blizzard is facing at some point. They've dealt with mass players in the starting zone. It's redundant and stressful for Blizzard to complete the same steps only to reach the same conclusions.
Everyone on Nost -> Elysium -> Light's Hope was more or less happy with the game as a whole (not the admins past Nost); I see no reason why it should be done differently.
Because the point of the project USED to be about the vanilla authentic experience.
Private servers arent it. And they are easy mode. The fact that it's currently harder than classic (Not original vanilla) speaks volumes about the sad shape of clsssic.
Mages in greens and specced arcane power. Let that sink in. That's wacked.
I know, but I don't think you're appreciating how far the horse is already out of the barn on this.
I mean, 6 months back people were arguing splitting hairs about how to handle black lotus, whether MC should be retuned, etc.
No we're arguing about sharding, loot sharing, and having to remind people over and over that no level 16 players shouldn't be steamrolling higher level mobs.
It's transitioned from arguing over the best frankenpatch to recreate Vanilla, to now dealing with a possible frankenexpansion of jumbled together stuff.
At this point my highest hope is something as authentic as 1.12 private servers -- otherwise I'm out.
11/05/2018 10:55 AMPosted by XanthakEveryone is aware that 1.12.1 private servers are currently harder than WOW Classic is, right? Saying their easy mode is false.
I want private server, tbh. They've iterated over it a dozen times, they've solved every issue that Blizzard is facing at some point. They've dealt with mass players in the starting zone. It's redundant and stressful for Blizzard to complete the same steps only to reach the same conclusions.
Everyone on Nost -> Elysium -> Light's Hope was more or less happy with the game as a whole (not the admins past Nost); I see no reason why it should be done differently.
Because the point of the project USED to be about the vanilla authentic experience.
Private servers arent it. And they are easy mode. The fact that it's currently harder than classic (Not original vanilla) speaks volumes about the sad shape of clsssic.
Mages in greens and specced arcane power. Let that sink in. That's wacked.
Right, okay - I'll trust your memory of Vanilla over the thousands of hours the private server community spent developing 1.12.1, including gathering and combing through every last piece of data that ever existed demonstrating how it was back then.
Unless Blizzard publicly releases the 1.12.1 data they have, or you spend thousands of hours combing through pre-existing data in screenshot/video/text format; then private servers are quite literally the best thing we have in terms of knowing what authentic vanilla is. It's a hell of a lot better than what you or I or anyone else "remembers".
11/05/2018 09:53 AMPosted by BarkamusSimply put, raiding on private servers is much easier than it was in vanilla.
This is due to various 1.12 talent and gear changes being active for early raids that they were not originally intended to be active for.
As things stand now, Blizzard is not going to address this issue, which means raiding will be much, much easier. Fire resist gear will likely not be necessary for MC, mana management will be a non issue due to everything dying so quick, mechanics can be largely ignored etc. Early raids especially will be a close cousin to a retail LFR experience, puggable by just about anyone with little thought or attention to detail or mechanics.
Is this what we want? To me, this is not what Vanilla was. The 1.12 buffs make things far easier than they should be, to the point where it could be detrimental to the game.
I think they need to address this issue. They need to account for the fact that things in 1.12 cause earlier raids to be trivialized. The simplest solution I see is to simply buff raids to account for all the extra power 1.12 provides. I think this would be closer to playing Vanilla as it actually was.
I totally get where you're coming from. You are correct about the issues with going forward with 1.12 and I do consider it a pity WoW Classic seems to be locked onto that particular path. What you need to consider is that most players 1) are not raiders 2) do not care about MC at all 3) prefer the pvp balance of 1.12. As someone who does it all I would like to see a few nerfs to the 1.12 builds by doing a frankenpatch. Use the 1.09 warrior talents etc. There are still solutions available other than buffing the raids which would make a huge mess of things and drag out the development time dramatically as Blizzard would need to test the various changes and of course decide at what point the raids were difficult enough...a completely subjective decision.
Before enough touching something as ambitious as retuning raid content let us first see if Blizzard can get the basics done right or the whole thing is moot anyways.