I simply said that as a RSV supporter, I would be inclined to support RSV. It’s antithetical for me to keep updating and improving MSV. I have chosen a side which means I’m going to have rivals and enemies. I can’t be everybody’s friend.
The class, C-L-A-S-S, has only gotten worse the past two expansions in rated representation and population. If we all play a Hunter at max level, we’re all burning. Unfortunately, MSV only cares about MSV, but two and three can play that game too. If MSV can do it, then surely that means MM and BM can look after themselves.
You sound like you would be happy with Survival just getting deleted rather than changed. Entitled much?
We are still one of the most heavily populated classes. With MM or BM having had a large number of high parses in every single tier that is larger than some other classes overall. Hunter is in a good state when it comes to population.
I agree, we are all Hunters, I do not see then why you come here to bash on other hunter’s instead of giving some actual feedback to help out
So because someone makes a post about Survival, then that means we are openly rejecting and neglecting MM and BM? is that your point? or do you have an even more silly way to explain why do you believe we who play MSV only care about MSV exclusivelly? If you look at my profile you will see i’m currently BM and have been playing it throughtout 8.3 even if I like more MSV. I have yet to see anyone in here also state that MSV is somehow more important than the other two specs. If you are worried about MM or BM current state I do more than support the idea of starting another thread for them but I do not see how you help either of the other specs by bringing hate toward us while you do not even give any actual feedback other than “I hate MSV so it should be forgotten”
Why are so many of you goons in the hunter forum like this, lol
Constantly pretending about how they care about “the health of the class” or its representation or whatever. Like nah lol, just say you don’t enjoy it. You don’t need to say anything more.
And if you do concern yourself with anything other than your own enjoyment in this game, you’re dumb.
Melee survival players like melee survival. They enjoy the spec, why should they care if other players don’t?
The split has a lot to do with traditional non-Hunters. Taking their voice out of the calculus would do a lot of good in reaching at minimum an acceptable compromise.
IF RSV is unobtainable in a manner consistent pre-Legion. But a deletion would free up resources and time to improve the other two specs. We couldn’t even get a new hero class this expansion. There’s been such a thing as “bloat”.
I don’t doubt that. It won’t be as heavily populated and as good as it used to be, but it’s still heavily populated and good.
Maybe if Blizzard can heed feedback instead of bash ALL hunters for an entire xpac cycle…but wait, I’m supposed to be better than the developers?
If you don’t even so much as a peep about MM and BM issues in the meta, then yes, that’s a rejection and neglect. That means SV has something to gain from their lack, so it is in the SV’s better interest to see MM and BM suffer.
The RSV Party would take that as a win in their argument.
You’ll need to get around more in the forums for that, particularly in meta discussions.
Yes, there are threads for that already, and it’s for MM’s and BM’s to discuss respectively.
It affects what we get and don’t get, and how well Blizzard listens to us. We are losing SEATS in the big Congress of WoW while other classes are growing. It’s no accident that cries for SV updates are getting louder to compensate. We stand to lose the entire class as is; we’ve been ignored too long. All of us. You’d have to excuse me for being nihilistic, but there’s too little cause for optimism lately.
So, can you tell me more about this inside information you got from Blizzard that confirms how Survival is taking so much resources from them that they can’t do anithing for the other two specs?
MM has gotten updates both in the first build of the alpha and in a couple of builds ago in the Beta.
BM got updates in the first build of alpha.
SV has gotten none.
I will agree with you and say that yes, Hunter overall have recieved the least ammount of Updates together with Monks, but I do not see any evidence that somehow points out toward SV as the culprit as to why BM or MM are being neglected. If anithing I would blame Warlocks or Shamans since they keep getting an new blue post and a bunch of changes every other build (plz do not take my words literally, do not go hate on them)
That SV is taking up all the resources from the class as a whole is a baseless accusation, Unless you got a friend in Blizzard that can confirm this or Blizzard themselevs make a post stating this then you are just whining for the sake of it.
So because Blizz hates all of us then you should go and hate on your fellow hunters too? What kind of logic is that?
Oh but I did create a topic to bring attention to Blizzard that we hunters deserved updates too. but that does not matter.
You seem to be of the beleive that because this thread is made for survival, then that means it automatically rejects the other two? what? Honestly I can’t even understand how your brain works if you think this.
This post is about Survival, obiusly it would not contain words about MM or BM and their issues because that is not the topic. If I make a topic about how can I make a great Lasagna I am not then going to start talking about how can I make a great Pizza or Spaghetti instead.
I have, I have yet to see any hate coming from MSV toward the other specs outside of self defence againts people like you who bring their dislike and their idea of “Let it die cuz I don’t like it” first.
Good, then instead of waisting your time whining in a thread of a spec you don’t play, maybe you should go put your feedback in those MM and BM threads instead to keep them up where hopefully Blizz will see them.
Maybe you should drop that tin foil hat out of your head, is messing up with your brain. unless Blizz comes and says so themselves, we got NO evidence that Survival is somehow to blame for the lack of updates our class has gotten in general.
I agree, maybe if we stood together rather than trying to cut each other throats perhaps we could fill this threads with useful feedback for Blizz that could be used to get us those direly needed updates.
But no, we have to go and bash each other just for s**t and giggles while also not bringing any actual useful feedback of any kind to the table that could be useful.
That’s practically the idea, but we can dumb it down to this: 2 out of 3 specs gets updates when 3 out of 3 should. That’s riding on the root tangent of worsening QC, which ought to be the true reason not to play WoW particularly at launch. But “2 out of 3 ain’t bad”; at least it’s better than 1 out of 3 getting updates in BFA.
The evidence is twofold: Blue posts saying SV would be considered niche and fewer Hunters across the board since Legion launch. Making MSV did not help bring in more SVs, more BMs, and more MMs. This is shown in the metrics. If Blizzard did it to Demo, they can do it to SV just the same.
“We’d rather you not play Survival[Demonology].” --Ion “Watcher” Hazzikostas
I like that you hint that I speak as one who WOULD have that kind of inside knowledge, but I actually don’t.
They’re the gods of this existence. We live and die by Blizzard’s divine wish in WoW.
Because the status quo established since Legion is not getting us anywhere. It really boils down to two tents: those who want to maintain the new status quo and those who do not. Or in other words: the old guard vs. the new guard. We believe that returning SV to its roots and expanding on that would restore the class.
It was kept low-key. They were content to let MM and BM die because they didn’t like it; they only liked MSV. Yea, the spec that gets places in PvP. You wouldn’t believe how mutual this has really gotten.
That’s what I was also trying to say: Blizzard hasn’t been seeing feedback. But SV magically didn’t care until it HAPPENED TO THEM. What SV is going through now, MM and BM dealt with it early on in the cycle. You are the rest of us 2 years ago. I hope you had the time of your life in BFA, and that goes for all SV mains.
They’ve said enough by omission, by things unsaid. There were a lot of things Blizzard needed to say that they didn’t say. It’s high time Blizzard gets us out from underneath the status quo.
I can put this way: when more and more Hunters have already rerolled or QQ’ed, whining may be the only thing we got left for engagement.
Other than that, MSV has had its salad days in BFA. Blizzard didn’t agree that the trend needed to be continued, otherwise they would have kept updating and updating it to make it the GOAT.
So, because Blizz is giving updates to 2 out of 3 right now, when in the past it gave updates to 1 out of 3. that means we do not have the right to ask for updates for that last one?
Flawed Logic based on a grudge.
Based on Parses, Hunter Population is still one of the largest.
Unless you got a graph or a link to these “metrics” you speak off that can showcase a dip in our population (Which I am already sure you don’t have) then your accusation of having fewer Hunter’s across the board is only in your imagination.
Blizzard has never also said that their intention with making MSV was to bring more people to SV, BM OR MM. So this point of yours have nothing to do with the conversation again.
The difference between Demo and SV is that Blizzard clearly stated it with Demo, Ion said it. Nobody has said anithing yet about SV.
So far all you have said is your opinion, with no real facts to back them up.
Worthless comment that does nothing to explain as to why you feel the need to attack your fellow hunters.
Will ignore.
Are you trying to embellish what you are doing? You have brought no feedback to improve the class, all you have done is spit hate toward MSV with factless claims.
You have done nothing.
Aka, “I have no proves but BELIEVE ME!”
This is is only in your head.
Unless you are able to read minds, then plz do tell me what color of panties I am thinking about right now?
I mean, if you keep trashing us. Is hard to stay polite against baseless accusations and people hating on you just because you like something.
Oh god! You are totally right, we did not care before! your mind reading abilities are so powerful! /sarcasm.
Again an accusation made up by your imagination.
Currently BM is the top spec in pve. MM and BM has both enjoyed the spotlight throughout BFA in PVE which is the content most popular and played overall. and parses back me up, not my opinion, unlike your claim.
So we can summarize that no, BFA was not SV golden years. It was BM’s.
Nope, Unless Blizz states it. this is only your opinion and is worthless for this argument.
Bring me actual facts to defend your claims or I will consider your opinion’s just as worthless.
No, whining does not help. saying “I DON’T LIKE IT” is useless if it’s not followed by a “I DON’T LIKE IT, because of this reason and this reason.”
This is your opinion, with no facts to back it up. it is worthless to discuss this.
BFA alpha and beta are well known across all class communities because Blizzard ignored everyone’s feedback, not only Hunters. Many of Survival changes were also not popular and we tried to bring our feedback about it was were ignored.
Who was the braindead that decided to make Mongoose bite, our main ability, into a talent instead?
We were ALL ignore then, not only “BM and MM” hunters.
Glad we both agree in that you do not have inside knowledge to have any of the information you are claiming to use to back up your claims.
This thread has been derailed enough. Have a bit of decency and stop.
I will post now some of my feedback of what I believe would help Survival.
Disclaimer: This is entirely my opinion and I am more than happy to hear other’s people opinion about Survival needing other different changes, more changes or less changes. I am not saying that My feedback is the correct and only way to fix our spec, I am only stating my beleives of what could help
Fix the focus regen bug in the PTR that halves our Focus regen
I believe MB and AP’s two kill command stacks (leaving the 30% damage increase as the actual talent) should become baseline.
Serpent sting should be made to scale with the same formula as other dots do.
Charkrams should be either moved to another row, made baseline or replaced with a more beneficial talent to compete in the row.
The lvl 60 row needs to get a look at as it has been dead in pve forever.
Cleave should have its cd removed and it’s damage lowered to give us a spamable aoe ability (with butchery remaining as is)
And lastly I would like emphasis on this to point out this is just a personal wish rather than something I need real fixing: kill command should be replaced with the original legion flanking strike both to separate survival from BM and to give more melee specific abilities to surv since currently only our autos and MB actually requires us to stay in melee range.
to dear Istolilly: Unless anithing of what you are about to say is backed up by actual fact instead of your feelings, I will ignore you for the sake of not derailing this thread more than it has already been.
You have the right to get the nerf nuke the rest of us got. I hope you had stocked up on Rad-X and Rad-Away.
That’s common knowledge. Read up.
See, there you go. You just said it. We can agree this was not to the benefit of all. Either by omission or commission, Blizzard had failed us.
That’s how civil wars and revolutions happen. I fight for the cause to bring the pre-Legion Hunter back–which includes RSV–and any Hunter is against me I will have to contend with.
That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t be on the right side of this.
Gotta do better at reading in-between the lines and to apply critical thinking. Trolls are not always obvious.
Thoughts? Haha. I only care to look at about action and inaction. Thoughts are worthless, just thoughts.
This was already an impolite affair. Politeness would be DOA in the Discord, never mind what I’ve said here.
Prove me wrong. Actions speak louder than words, ya know?
I’m sorry you didn’t get what you wanted. It’s okay because I didn’t get what I wanted in BFA either. Unless you want to say that MSV’s best years are yet to come, I’d say this is the best MSV has been.
Omission is a real concept. Refusing to say things for a reason is saying something. I know Blizzard has their reasons. You’re not going to get facts when they choose not to reveal them, but there are other ways to make determinations.
Nothing has helped. On that note, I actually thought the current developing situation on MSV was most fortuitous. It wasn’t what I was expecting earlier this year. But I can say it with some others that I’m glad it’s happening.
Until the next expansion(s), I suppose, after SL, then.
That’s all you practically harped on about. I’m just politically in agreement with Blizzard’s handling of SV. It makes for good politics on my end. Viva la revolucion de RSV, baby.
That’s fine. I got the OLD GUARD in my corner. Just the concept alone that this is a springboard of opportunity to revolutionize the class is what bothers you, and rightly so.
Survival must be given the ability to choose between Using a two-hander or dual wielding One-Handers.
We are currently capable of equipping dual wielded one-handers but can’t use them because our abilities require a two-hander.
Lorewise the most well known Survival Hunters (Rexxar and Nathanos) both dual-wield. But we do also have examples of Survival NPCs that use Two-handers.
I propose we are given the ability to choose between either Dual wielding or using a Two-hander.
we can either go the way of the Frost DK with a special passive that differentiates each into giving a special benefit over the other (Which is the option I do not recommend)
Or we can simply give Survival Hunters the ability to Transmog their two-hander into a pair of dual wielded weapons. (Which is the option I recommend as it would not add another thing to balance)
Disclaimer: This is entirely my opinion and I am more than happy to hear other’s people opinion about Survival needing other different changes, more changes or less changes. I am not saying that My feedback is the correct and only way to fix our spec, I am only stating my beleives of what could help
Agreed on 2charge kc, but hard disagree on kill mongoose baseline. Tip gives a nice alternative for easier way to deal it’s full damage and be less punishing if you suddenly had to move away from enemy. And in some cases it could even end up better dps option because of it.
I vote for replacement for something more useful
Easier alternative.
If enemy is not in range, you do current kill command animation and functionality, if enemy is in melee range, you do a melee atack along your pet (like the flanking strike talent of bfa alpha where it was literally this)
About your carve point: it already does low damage as it is, also removinf cd might force blizz to lower wfb cd reduction.
Agreed that lvl 60 needs better tuning for pve, but in pvp depending on situation all of the talents are used.
This.
Apart from every other class that would flip their poop, sure. Atleast hunters are happy, though you guys would not be happy because most of you already expressed how you want it to be exactly as x, y or z iteration which is not going to happen.
That’s why I think compromise is the most important part. I’ve personally tried making suggestions I thought people could get behind, but it’s not what any of them want. They just want their spec back. I don’t blame them, either.
There will always be those that complain about other classes receiving certain changes/additions. This should not serve as a deterrent for doing something which is highly motivated considering the circumstances.
Besides, the problem in question is one of the Hunter class. It has little-to-nothing to do with other classes.
It seems that you’ve somehow managed to miss the suggestions I’ve linked in the past.
The idea with that concept is to bring about some of the more liked elements from all past iterations of RSV. As well as adding in new ones to fit the modern game.
Does this mean that I would hate it if RSV came back but not exactly like what I proposed? No, not at all.
They’re called “suggestions” for a reason.
The thing here is that it doesn’t have to be about making a compromise between ranged vs. melee. It doesn’t have to be 'either-or", nor does it have to be about merging anything.
If it wasn’t possible to add in additional specs to existing classes, then one could begin talking about compromises. But since it’s possible to do the above, compromises aren’t necessary.
Here, it’s only about mindsets. Not about limitations.
I don’t mean compromise between ranged and melee. I mean compromise between four specs and actually baking RSV into MM tree, and not the pathetic attempt the dev team already took at it. Actual Explosive Shot back, Black Arrow, and Serpent Sting/Spread. The compromise comes from where do we decide we are happy vs flat out just wanting the spec back 100% and not being satisfied until that happens.
Also, MSV focus regen really needs a look taken. I was testing SV changes and you can barely cast 2 or 3 five stack Mongooses right now. It’s pretty bad. The spec doesn’t flow nearly as well as it did during BfA.
No I saw that. But if you weren’t including me in that statement then why quote me on it?
And?
Druids have 4 btw.
Short answer?
When we can access a playstyle which feels like and works like how old RSV did.
Further:
For that to be possible through MM as it is now, you’d have to alter a lot more than simply putting in the old ES/BA/SrS in there.
And my point here is that we shouldn’t have to make a compromise there as, many MM Players like that MM focuses on what it does. They don’t want MM to be diluted/partially removed just to fit RSV in there.
And since that’s not actually required for RSV to come back, no compromise is needed. But rather a change in the mindset that classes should be limited to 3 specs(something which has already changed).
It’s the same thing with the current(future) MSV. A compromise isn’t required here in order to solve these issues.