Do priest-healers actually need buff?

Right…?

Renew is so bad, that out-of-combat health regen is actually stronger. Its basically, an Anti-biotic. It doesn’t really do anything noticeable, but heal a little faster and prevents infection.

Could you imagine – A Talent for Renew, that after 6-seconds it attempts to remove a Disease or a Poison effect?

–or–

PoM removes a Curse, Poison, or Disease from the Target as long as it is its first bounce.


Because as it currently stands, the issue with Priests outside of raid isn’t the HPS its the Utility and QoL – Removing a Poison with a GCD would be significantly less stressful than trying to spam heal through it.

I’m fine with having to heal the tank more, but when 5-people all have a DoT that deals 1m damage a tick and I have no option than to spam single target heals, because there are literally no other answers. That just sucks… I miss the days where 90% of a DPS’s survival was on them just not standing in bad… now there is sooo much overlapping damage on top of unavoidable AoE damage that ticks for 20% of each party members Healthbar. Its just too much to be considered fun.

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Basically this.

The changes in the patch notes are definitely intended to fix problems that we have… Or at least that Disc has. However they fail to address those problems that were called out in the Dev note. Unlike the Atonement buff prior to release, they’re not even really adequate as a band-aid.

I think a lot of people wouldn’t care if the Dev note was like, “Hey we have other stuff planned but this is all we can ship out for now.” But… we’re 2 months into TWW and this is basically the first time that we’ve seen Healing Priest show up, and this is it? So I’m sure there’s animosity in that we Priests still don’t even know if Blizzard is aware of all the problems this class has. I don’t know how they couldn’t be, but they sure act like they are clueless and definitely have me fooled if they aren’t in fact clueless.

And to address OP. We need buffs but these are not the buffs we need. So no, we don’t need these buffs at the very least, lol.

I’m topping heals in RBGs at 2.2k mmr as Holy… its just that there’s not many Holy Priests that know how to play very well with it.

https://i.imgur.com/XpMdKyy.jpeg

So I’m still holding up my placard for more buffs :placard:

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Other MMOs achieve it just fine.

I had no idea how spoiled by FFXIV’s class balance I was until I came back to Wow and it was a total dumpster fire.

After 20 years I must assume it’s intended. They WANT you to hate your class and reroll, buy boosts etc to extend your sub, boost their profits and life of the game.

Jokes on them, I just keep one of each class at max level.

Please ignore the rogue sitting in the corner unleveled. I’ll get to them eventually! Probably!

. . . Nah Rogue feels worse to play than Priest rn lmao.

Didn’t blz just remove GCD of feint?

FFXIV’s class balance comes by making the classes almost entirely homogenous, and having no customization, to be fair.

Like playing a healer in FFXIV you can quite literally map every single GCD and oGCD to the exact same buttons and hit the exact same buttons in the exact same scenarios between every class barring maybe Astro, and Astro is only thrown off by Cards which are a miniscule part of its kit now.

Hell some of these buttons are the exact same down to POTENCY. Like… Look at a Scholar’s Indom vs a Sage’s Ixochole. Both PBAoE from the caster. Both a 15 yard range. Both heal for 400 potency. Ixo costs 1 addersgall (1 stack every 20s), Indom costs 1 Aetherflow (3 stacks every 60s).

Or how about A scholar’s Lustrate vs a Sage’s Druochole. Both 600 potency single target heals with a 30 yard range. Hmmm…

Even DPS are all on the same 2 minute window and their rotations all line up at the exact same time - even if they at least have a variety of playstyle when it comes to procs/priority systems, etc. You’ll still be doing a specific opener which you’ll then copy and repeat every 2 minutes in every fight on every DPS spec.

Like I don’t hate FFXIV, I’ve cleared 3/5 ultimates and generally do the first tier of savage every time at least.

But class design has major problems in that game and their community has more recently been very consistently complaining about them to a point where the dev team has made promises to try and make the classes play differently. Because let’s be real, there’s no discernible difference for a lot of classes, and there’s a TON of overlap in kits.

Oh, and other MMOs don’t have infinitely scaling content that gets to a difficulty level where people are eeking out whatever they can out of their class. If FFXIV ever did implement an M+, it would absolutely end up in a meta and classes that could not perform.

3 Likes

L take. Priests, especially holy priests, need major buffs.
In raid, we are one of the lowest hps healers and only played for the niche spot healing we can do using light weaver.
In m+ it’s way worse. Check healer participation for high keys. Holy Priest is the lowest represented healer, and the first healer to drop out in the highest keys. The lacks the utility to be viable in m+ content where other healers can still manage.
I don’t play pvp but from what I can see, it’s the least played healer, so I’m guessing it’s also bad in that area.
Priest talent tree is horrible. None of the nodes feel impactful or good to pick. Holy Priest tree is even worse.
Time and again we are ignored in the patch notes. I’ve submitted in game feedback countless times, and even wrote about it in my reason for unsubscribing, but it seems to fall on deaf ears.

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All healers need a boost in utility so that people don’t pick Resto Shams over healers when going into Mythic.

Nah, shaman just needs to loose half of theirs.

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Could the devs behind class design not, for example, just find a unique way to include more utility in Priest? I mean, we did have things like Shining Force, Mind-bomb and Spectral Guise before.

Gutting parts of another class’ kit instead of iterating on others is just gonna leave both ends of the stick bitter.

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They can, but we’re next best compared to shaman, druid and Monk won’t them nerfed more. Shamans specs are so op, if feel like the SOD team is doing class balance.

Haha yeah. And the healing aspect of that game certainly has other major issues (mainly that healing is extremely formulaic and not very engaging until really hard content, and that doing DPS as one will put you to sleep).

But the thing is, when the goal is balance, and players have essentially unlimited choices with comp, “unique and different” literally loses all value. Balance means equality on each side. The only way to achieve that is the dreaded “homogenization” the the usual suspects denigrate constantly on forums. Its just be come other anti-negativity buzz word. Most of these people seem to hate complaining so much they cant use common sense.

Thats not to say the 1 to 1 carbon copying of ff14 is the way to go. Classes obviously need to have things that make them their own. But again when the goal is balance. A foundational line needs to be drawn at basic functionality and overall power.

For WoW this is things like dps / hps cooldowns, interrupts and their cooldowns, mobility, defensives and others that all content is literally and precisely designed around.

Shaman can interrupt on a short cooldown…priests cant do it at all.

Priest have…psychic scream. Evokers have terror of the sky, racials, oppressive roar, sleep walk (admittedly a really wierd CC)…and its like…how the bloody hell does a disparity like this get past QA?

There is no possible way anyone competent at design would think these sort of differences in basic, necessary abilities are acceptable. And yet somehow, here we are, because “homogenization” is made out as the bane of gaming, even though it is the only way to accomplish and semblace of objective balance.

3 Likes

Whew, OK. But the problem is that FFXIV actually takes that homogenization to the extreme.

The healer classes in that game are painfully boring until hard content, but then you missed the second problem. In hard content they all play the same.

Besides extraneous things that don’t fully matter to your actual healing kit, you’re going to plan your globals out the exact same way. A Sage player can just swap to scholar and they’ll still have the exact same plan for the fight. The only differences start at like level 90 buttons, and you’re only gonna hit those buttons like once a minute/3 minutes.

Balance for the world first groups also STILL DOES have this problem because of party buffs, which are one of the only unique things these classes bring. The only difference is that the classes are SO similar otherwise that you’re really only getting maybe a very slight change in performance.

But again, if FFXIV had an M+ equivalent, you WOULD see these differences play out. Half the reason that you don’t see the “meta” in FFXIV is that the content is easy right up to ultimates, and even at ultimate range these things get cleared in a couple days by WF groups. Savage has extremely generous windows to a point where I’ve hit enrages like twice in pug groups. Battle rezes are infinite with only a DPS loss, etc, etc.

If the content was actually hard enough that you had to consider that Scholar gives you a speed boost and Sage doesn’t and that was enough to maybe pass/fail, you WOULD take scholar every time. And this is in a game where these classes have carbon copy buttons.


But that kind of doesn’t matter, because it totally misses the point. I don’t think anyone considers priests getting interrupts as a huge ‘homogenization’ point. Healers ARE homogenized in this respect, but priests are an odd one out.

Most people support priest getting an interrupt and some better form of mobility.

I hate complaining from a front of “let’s just make things up!!! Then maybe we’ll look bad enough to buff!!” Which is how half of these threads turn out.

We’ll say things like “Man this class is awful it can’t even heal a +8 boss!” or “Man this class is awful it literally sucks in all content and can’t succeed” or “Man priest HPS is so BAD”

When what is REALLY happening is that the class has a good amount of HPS. Disc itself is a wild outlier spec that’s doing an insane amount of HPS in small group content and is about to become meta because of prot pally/ele and enh shaman rise in M+. It totally lacks utility and that sucks - but its DR is making up for that. Holy lacks the utility to compete AND doesn’t have any DR to speak of so it just can’t compete in the top 1% of keys (but it’s still a solid spec till 10keys if all you care about is portals).

Like people should complain, but they should complain about what actually sucks about priest, which is its utility kit - it has no good stops, it has no interrupt, its mobility is bad, its group utility is basically only PI/fort because Mass Dispel isn’t ever relevant anymore.

Half these threads are still about DPS and HPS. Meanwhile Disc has so much HPS it’s totally ignoring its utility weakness and is still the highest DPS healer in dungeons.

Holy definitely needs a buff. The literal only Light-based caster spec in the entire game should not be relegated to only being useful in the least played content in the game.

I have zero issues with the classes in FFXIV tbh. My Astro is very different from WHM etc. The have similar AOE heals but enough flavor in the utility spells to define them from each other. Like WHM’s lily mechanic and Astro’s cards. And SCH has pet management ffs.

That’s generally enough for me. They all have a defined lore and distinct aspects to separate from each other while still being playable in virtually all tiers of content the game provides. If Yoshi says they want to make them more distinct them I’m all for that, especially from a lore pov. (the main reason I play that game tbh) They should bring back class quests.

But in FFXIV you would NEVER run into a issue where “This healer has no AOE Heals and all the dungeons are high burst AOE damage.” Which is currently the issue with Holy Priest. In a flat comparison, Wow’s version is unplayable compared to FFXIV.

Can’t speak for DPS, don’t play DPS in that game. :man_shrugging:

Half these threads are still about DPS and HPS. Meanwhile Disc has so much HPS it’s totally ignoring its utility weakness and is still the highest DPS healer in dungeons.

I feel like part of being a good designer is parcing through feedback and having a good enough understanding of what you’ve created to know what is bothering players through the noise. In this case it’s “Everyone dies in AOE because Piety isn’t up and I have no AOE to speak of.” - HPS.

I don’t even work for them and I can tell that. Hire me I guess idfk.

I have a theory that the progressive devs don’t like the idea of a traditional priest using light to heal because of some weird connection and dislike to real life priests. That’s my tin foil hat theory because nothing else makes sense as to this much neglect for this spec. Lol

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Its almost like those two things are a necessity for a spec that has damn near zero utility and when it has them, it does good. Shocker I know.

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Blizzard solution to Priests for the last 3-4 years has been just to buff the numbers.

The issue is the playability, smoothness, and utility.

You could buff Shadow Priest to make it S-Tier again, but that doesn’t mean its going to feel good… It may look good, but its still a clunky mess.

Regarding Healing, they’d rather buff Priests to be the BEST healers in terms of HPS just to stonewall on refusing to give them an Interrupt or more Mobility.

Why flameshapper is a better disc, can u highlight that for me pls?