Do players like difficulty?

Community General Discussion
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I see this position is always being represented in some way across any post that represents either pruning, simplification, low mythic/heroic, and even raiding.

Theres a good chunk of players that say things like “get gud” or even “maybe X isnt for people like you” or one I read just a few minutes ago said “Well some of us like very difficult content” I wonder how true this actually is.

If these players truly want the game to be hard then I would ask a few simple questions like;

-What addons do you use for this content and why?

-Do you use third party sites for build suggestions, routes, and meta comps?

-Do you often aim higher on gearscore than whats actually needed to make the timer/complete the content or be carried?

If they say yes to any of these then they dont actually seek difficulty, They intentionally go out of their way in order to have an easier time and create alot less friction in this high-end content. Essentially being an elitist without the prestige thats truly associated with earning it through real effort. You cant diss someone for riding a bigwheeler but then you yourself still have training wheels on.

If flexing hard content means that you remove all sources of friction then you dont truly have a flex and you shouldnt be so hard on casual players for no reason

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Preach brother!

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i like some challenge but i don’t wanna sweat so hard over it. i know my limits lol. im just tryna have fun

:cherries:

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I have the OP blocked so I’m not sure their exact question, but yes, some players certainly do!

I would say the median WoW player does not, however.

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Didnt know using a spoon to eat soup meant that I disliked difficulty that came from eating soup.

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I dont think this rebuttal went half as hard as you think it did

I didnt realize soup was inherently difficult with or without a spoon

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I rather more accessibility than difficulty tweaks.

For example, get rid of the Mythic lockout system.

lmao.

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Just let people enjoy things.

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Yes, there are people who want difficult content. One example would be Maximilian, team captain for the eSport Team Liquid which competes in the Race For World First (RWF). If you go on Raider dot IO you will see the progress of thousands of guilds as they try to clear the raids.

That being said, I don’t agree with the people who talk down to the weaker players with the ridiculous saying “Git Gud” which clearly rhymes with “mud”. Not only is it a really stupid sounding statement, it is arrogant and unnecessary.

The game scales really well by providing content at all levels. You can be an eSport wizzard like Max and it has something for you and your team or you can be at the bottom of the pile like me and WoW has something for you.

We see this with Mythic Raid’s RWF, HOF and CE at the top end and Follower Dungeons and Story Mode Raid at the bottom.

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That’s not part of the difficulty much unless you expect people to not have the tools which were available to all. If you want to eat soup with no spoon be my guess but that’s not what most people doing it did that it might as well be a weirder choice like with soup to decide to do it another way.

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They split the raid up this time, so you’ll be able to pug the hard bosses for sure.

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Why do Formula 1 teams spend over $30,000 on multiple sets of custom made tires for a race? Why don’t they just use $80 ones from Tire Discounters, wouldn’t that make it more difficult?

Why do NFL teams spend hundreds of millions of dollars on players? Couldn’t they just grab some guys from the local bar? Wouldn’t that make it more difficult?

Why do UFC fighters train intensively for 6 months prior to a fight? Wouldn’t it be more difficult if they just sat around and got fat?

Having difficult content and using available tools to optimize and make your play the most efficient to clear the content are not mutually exclusive.

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This response is soup-like and difficult to read but im gonna attempt to respond to it. The argument i made isnt that tools are wrong nor bad. The argument is that when you advocate for hard content, then demean others who speak against certain aspects of it. You dont always realize you may be using 1 or even all 3 of the references I made in the questions. You cant advocate for things that you cant do without assistance/help from outside sources. The argument isnt that the tools exist. The argument is that the ones who often demean “bad” players are the people who use tools to hardcarry their gameplay and remove a significant amount of friction. Its repping the prestige without the effort that would usually be associated with the process needed to get the reward

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Let’s be honest here people like to blame tools why they cant do hard content but the average wow player is not that great at the game still. Id recommend playing classic if you want to see even the most simple mechanics still being failed today.

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i use addons for aesthetics.
previously, i used it because POOR TELEGRAPHING IS NOT A MECHANIC. a 10x10 icon of a buff buried in all the rest of my 600 buffs is a garbage way to tell me something important has happened.

i was on board with your post til you made the room temp IQ claim that using addons mean we hate difficulty. the difficulty should be in executing whatever the buff/debuff asks, not in seeing that you have it to begin with.

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i think for any activity to be interesting, there needs to be a balance between challenge and reward.

of course, this is a spectrum.

players’ time and ability is also a spectrum. good players who spend a lot of time in the game have the ability to push the boundaries of the game. meanwhile, more casual players want to spend time, perhaps, in a more immersive experience. both types of players want to experience some form of progression and earn rewards they think are commensurate with their activity.

blizz has a lot on their plate in that respect.

I consider myself to be a serious casual player.

I am serious in that I want to know my spec well and operate the toon correctly. since I mostly tank m+ in the 2-2.5k score range (+7-10 keys), i know that the team is relying on my to know my stuff.

accordingly, I will look at dungeon guide videos, listen to content creators who essentially play the game for a living, and run the addons that help improve my, and therefore the team’s, chances of success.

in terms of gear score, I definitely look to over gear the content at least to a certain extent. for me as the tank, ilevel can be a cushion against mistakes, either by me or the team.

but as i noted, my goals are fairly modest in the game. while I play a lot, I don’t want to spend the amount of time necessary to know everything down the CD in a dungeon.

I want to play in the space that gives me the balance I want between challenge and reward.

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I suggest you actually read the post. You dont have to actually hate difficulty due to using addons but you can’t advocate for difficulty if you are making every effort to remove the friction and difficulty thats associated with the high end content.

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OP’s post went from a question to a slam on certain players. Pretty rough dude.

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Git gud. I would say as a joke git gud or git rekt. Just a silly joke. You legit should not be getting offended by some harmless online silly online banter.

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-Do you use third party sites for build suggestions, routes, and meta comps?
-What addons do you use for this content and why?
If they say yes to any of these then they dont actually seek difficulty,

what did i miss in your message? i use addons and use wowhead for a better understanding of things the game isn’t clear on. does this mean i hate difficulty? according to the op, yes.