Do any guilds still try to scam their members with loot councils?

It absolutely is a raid healing spec - In fact there are 3-4 different mainline raid healing druid specs, depending on how much gear you have - and the build your likely referring too - 21/30 - Has it’s problems and loses utility like Swiftmend (which is important) and trades it for access to Natures Grace & essentially Regrowth Spam. Which due to the Mana Cost is both deeply unhelpful in longer fights, far less mana efficient than back to back 166 Mana Rank 4 HT’s & Regrowths / Swiftmend and the very rare Regrowth, but also requires both end-raid levels of gear(which even at 6/8 T2 and some raid items I’m not comfortable with at only 5.8K base mana pre-buff), and I’d argue flasks to be utilized properly due to the aforementioned necessary absolutely tremendous mana pool to go down the Natures Grace Regrowth spam route. I’d argue 12/0/39 or 15/0/36 are both far better healing specs for raids when you need (or simply want) utility. Then, you get to - 24/0/27 when you reach very high Healing Power levels and want to be able to spam heals in Moonglow Healing spec. Which also gives up Swiftmend, which I personally don’t believe is worth it.

We definitely do do rather decent damage. At least as I was referring too in solo play. Even without changing spec, staying in healer mode without going full Boomkin (39 points in Restoration / Healing Talents) - I’m able to do 800-1K crits off of a 1.5 second Wrath before using my Zandalarian Hero Charm. A week ago with 18 spellpower in my full healing set I was only doing 300-380 damage a hit. Now it’s over double that at only -400 SP, and there’s still a ton of improvement to be made - I see nothing wrong with someone who raids 7 times a week getting some spellpower offspec gear if they have the EPGP to get it. They busted their butts for it, and deserve to keep it. I certainly won’t waste it. Even as offspec gear. And just these gear improvements alone are enough to make farming things like EE/SS or even Winterfell Firewater to fund raids and make some cash pretty effortless. And again, that’s with still almost entirely non-raid gear blues from dungeons and a couple enchants. No Druid is going to waste Spellpower gear - they’ll use it for Offspec solo farming, without even having to change spec. In fact I’d argue getting a decent spellpower offspec set should be mandatory to life as a druid main unless your playing feral. And I wouldn’t personally ever play Feral. In fact I don’t see myself changing spec from Resto ever since it hasn’t been necessary. Not for PvE where I heal in raids, Not for PvE where I solo farm mob drops to AH to fund raids, not for PvP which I’m only doing to exalt every battleground due to wanting to exalt every faction ingame (minus the impossible centaurs) - at no point has respeccing as a Druid been necessary. Getting a spellpower set, even a relatively bad one that I only started a week ago and have been building out since - has done more than enough for what I want to do to solo gold farm, and yeah, do pretty good damage.

I use a (super old) retail character because I haven’t played retail in many years - since the 100 cap - and I’m not going to publicly out any of my actually played characters. I only play Classic now and haven’t touched retail in a long, long time. Private person and all that. I very much prefer and adore Classic. I just ardently believe #somechanges would be good for the game. Things that wouldn’t obviously go against the feel of the game, but act as QoL - like Dual Spec, a group finder (without teleports to keep the open world active), and instant mail. Your free to disagree or agree with that as you like - people can like the same things for different reasons.

All this is to say we deserve an equal shot at spellpower gear as everyone else. Especially if your willing to put in the time and effort and go under an EPGP system.

And frankly speaking, I don’t see how you could possibly agree that people should get their fair share of loot, but also hate the idea of personal loot. Bit contradictory yeah?

People should get back what they put in - If your raiding 7 times a week, you deserve some gear out of it, yes, even offspec loot once everyone has it main spec, or your in a raid where nobody currently wants it for main spec. Druids should get to roll on spellcaster gear. EPGP does this - You get back, what you put in. Assuming the items you want drops and your front of the queue, which you can rapidly move up in if your working hard, overtaking others who slouch. That’s a looting system I can get behind.

Also, no - They wouldn’t be decided by a loot council, since MS>OS is pretty obvious in just about every possible case, so the only thing that get’s decided by officers in an EPGP system is what raid tiers are going to use EPGP or Free Roll MS>OS, and how much EPGP any individual piece of gear costs in raids which use it. Everything else just goes, again, by queue. If something is for your class, and main spec, you get it if you’ve earnt it - if it’s for your class but offspec, you get it if nobody else needs it for main spec and your still front of the line. That’s fair.

Loot councils? Not Fair. Deeply Anti-trust. They aren’t even remotely the same thing.

DKP & GDKP? Deeply unfair for reasons noted in the original post.

Free Roll MS>OS? I can get behind it, but I don’t prefer it since it doesn’t account for effort, time, player skill, or really anything other than your favor with RNGesus on any given moment.

EPGP is as close to perfect as looting systems get in Classic, and blows every other option out of the water - but ESPECIALLY Loot Councils…

Or this is my 6th level 60 character, and have only done 2 raids in barely better than dungeon gear. Do you want to look up my facebook page and throw poop at me there too?
Does it make you feel good to be king of all answers and intricacies of how you think people should play and spec their character?
Do you play 20 hours a day and think that status and items in a video game makes you a better person, and the defacto god of loot distribution in a 16 year old, nerfed, complete museum piece of entertainment?

If you weren’t posting on a horde toon, I’d swear you were someone from Highcrown.

edit - Oh you’re alliance… I think my suspicions are right.

Projecting

“Out” your characters?

What the sam-hell does that even mean? Do you really think anybody cares?

The point Rautaketju is making is that almost anything you say can’t be verified other than by your word. There’s no proof you even have a Druid. There’s no proof you play Boomkin if you did. There’s no proof you’ve performed in any decent capacity on said Boomkin druid.

All of these things would instantaneously prove your point, or contradict it, but you’re not fronting that information for obvious reasons. To freely be a contrarian on a topic that was solved even back in actual Vanilla: Boomkins are bad DPS in raids. To make an extraordinary claim you need extraordinary evidence.

I do not play boomkin, so I have no idea what you are talking about. I certainly don’t know why a boomkin would need DFT.

Would it make you feel better if I post on my retail character from 15 years ago?

Isn’t it obvious that a topic like this I would not post on my character dealing with loot council garbage?

I am not making performance claims, character class claims, spec claims, any sort of “claim” that would require my to “prove” something to you.

My questions and statements are in direct regards to loot council systems for a nerf mueseum piece of a game like killing c’thun is some sort of accomplishemnt with youtube guides and full world buffs… it isn’t.

Every loot council guild I have ever been a part of has ALWAYS ended up corrupt, even if the best intentions were there at the start. The fact is, you can pug aq 40… and guild are finally figuring out soft reserves, -20 on roles is the only way to do loot.

Everything else is completely subjective as far as “performance”.

You will always find in every LC guild, a large group of officers spending more time in their own private chat channel than actually playing the game. A simple character inspection shows where the loot is going.

Boomkin is the second lowest DPS spec in the game. Wtf do you mean decent damage?

Sorry, but I can’t take anything you say seriously when you spew this kind of nonsense.

Then you shouldn’t worry too much about not getting gear on it.

People were doing 5x your DPS in pre-raid gear back in Phase 1.

Considering it’s totally irrelevant, no. Your performance in raids, however, is relevant to the discussion of why your loot council wasn’t giving you gear.

No idea what that is. You can see my realm: Herod.

Wow you are thick… I tell you this is my 6th 60, dinged a month ago and not my main raider, and you tell me I still suck and no wonder I don’t get loot?

Seriously bro, put the crack away and go outside.

*edit - just to be petty I looked you up, and I parse better as a FERAL in healing gear bro.

My personal experience dictates all things!!!

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It’s not nonsense. And I’m not a Boomkin spec. If you read the full post you’d know this. Go Back, read the full context, then comment. Shouldn’t take more than a single minute.

Druids absolutely do do decent damage in solo play with even remotely decent spellpower gear. Enough to solo most any mob elite or not in the open world in a good amount of time, even in healing spec without having to go Boomkin. If we raid, we deserve a chance to get it as much as the next guy.

Ideas like this are why Loot Councils don’t work. Bias.

All my bad experiences with loot council have occurred due to people’s inflated sense of entitlement.

People get into this mindset of “what they deserve”, don’t know how to communicate like a normal human and end up causing issues.

I’ve never seen one of these “corrupt” loot councils, just bitter individuals who think they’re owed something and blame it on corruption when most likely it’s their own social awkwardness.

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Found the corrupt ninja. :point_up_2:

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LOL somebody’s on a loot council, watch out … his $15 is a special $15 that gives him power over other people, “entitled sheep” type people with less valuable time and $15…

Let’s cut to the chase and hear about how you got passed up for DFT during your first week with a new guild.

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Why would that matter? I am not saying that is the case, it has been more like 9 months… but really, why would it matter?

Are you one of those guilds that recruits players and tells them they get no loot?

Welcome to the guild! Happy to have new players to suck off and help us get geared bro!

This is the same attitude as missing 2 raids in 9 months as a reason for not getting contested loot. Utter BS.

9/10 times I find that people who think LCs are corrupt are usually just mad that they didn’t get what they wanted and are throwing a tantrum

A truly corrupt LC would die so fast in classic it would be comical. They’d hemorrhage members and word would get out

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Why would time investment matter? Is that a serious question? Are you aware that DKP is literally a punch card that players cash in for loot? You will not find guild doing open roll raids, you will only find loot systems that reward time investment. That means new members are not cutting to the front of any line in any loot system.

“Why would time investment matter”… just amazing.

These aren’t the same thing.

Every few weeks there’s a new thread from some idiot complaining about LC.

If you dont like LC as a system go raid in a EPGP or DKP style guild. Nobody is forcing you to raid with a LC style guild.

It’s amazing how much people want to be utterly babied playing Classic WoW.

People have tons of agency about who they raid with. There are numerous guilds to choose from across a multitude of servers. The content is ultimately pretty straight forward and figured out…so the accessibility for the majority of the populace is high.

It’s not like there’s only a tiny group of people raiding content at the top… and all of them are LC guilds who’ve been playing in private servers for years.

If LC doesn’t align with your goals as a player…don’t raid in a LC guild.

I specifically avoided DKP/EPGP guilds as I wasn’t interested in them.

If there’s such a high demand for these other loot disbursement systems, people should have no problem finding them and raiding in those guilds.

In terms of new recruits being equal prio on important/low % drops over established raiders who’ve show up and performed consistently…

Lol. Good luck retaining your raid core. People love having their investment in organizations devalued and thrown in the dumpster.

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It’s not always blatantly clear and sometimes it’s slow burn. I’ve definitely seen corrupt loot councils take a whole tier before everyone wised up and ended up forcing the guild to disband.

Guild runs are usually DKP or Loot council systems.

Pugs are either Gdkp or soft/hard reserve.

Really depends on the guild and group. All these systems have their benefits. All can be abused. Damn prio lists.