Obviously you dont know but this cant be done anymore. Blizzards nerfs to boosting made this no longer possible.
Any class can solo low level normals if you try hard enough, bm hunters, frost mages… it doesn’t matter once you hit 80, you wont be soloing heroics or raids.
Feral was a problem in Cataclysm because of the melding of the tank and dps talents into one tree (and the combining of talents, meaning you had more points to dump into the tankiness). Death Knights currently have that same ability in every single one of their trees.
Weaving tank talents and dps talents does indeed “make a class stronger”. Death Knights effectively have 2 ways to play each pure tree, discounting hybridization. WotLK was indeed the expansion they were considered the “hero class”. Cata is when they backtracked on that statement and made the trees dedicated to specific roles and therefore boring.
I think people are forgetting or may not be aware that all tank specs were buffed to ridiculous levels in Wrath.
They have awesome survivability and very high damage, especially AoE which was a new experiment at the time to see if it made tanks more popular to play.
It was toned down in subsequent expansions, but we’re playing Wrath classic and tank specs rock. Get used to it for a while.
What this results in is a bunch of hypothetically viable dungeon tank builds and 2 very similar viable raid tank builds
Most DK PvPers (In Arena) will be strictly Unholy
Do they have variety? Yes. Is all of that variety top tier? Far from it
Unholy is perfectly viable to tank. Bone Shield. That is all. Blood and Frost use the same runes for their significant abilities, but those abilities (OB and DS) interact differently. One is defensive, the other isn’t. The CD’s are also used dissimilarly. Blood is a reactive tank. Frost is proactive (preventative). Their similarities stop at the rune system.
Incorrect. Frost is better early. Hungering Cold is very good. Unholy scales. We will be in blues and starter epics. Frost has better burst.
People still play prot warriors and they’re “far from top tier” - and they still work. Willing to bet that an Unholy tank does a better job at mitigation than a prot warrior. The gaps between “top and bottom” tiers in wrath regarding tanks are nill. If you were talking destro v affliction DPS then you’d be right, but even then destro is a machine in PvP. There’s a spot for everything.
Going to stop you there, nobody is going to Unholy tank in any serious raid team
This is fine in dungeons. In raids you’re going Blood/Frost for tanking.
No. Unholy is one of the best season 1 pvpers, and Frost becomes okay later due to ArP scaling. Unholy eventually gets outclassed by all Arms comps, but early on Unholy is a PvP god, not Frost
People still play prot warriors and they’re “far from top tier” - and they still work
Prot warrior is fine until 25H ICC Sindy/LK. They get a bad stigma for this because for anyone progressing, they’ll be swapped for a prot pally or blood DK until the raid is geared enough to carry them on those 2 fights
The gaps between “top and bottom” tiers in wrath regarding tanks are nill.
No
I can tell you haven’t played wrath in a long time and are basing your knowledge of Metagoblin videos. I’ve played these servers for years, you are far from right on so many things
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Okay, seems we have a lot of Wrath first timers.
The soloing community really took off in Wrath for a reason. Some of my favourite videos of Wrath include:
-A druid soloing Heroic Halls of Lighting
-A paladin soloing the king of Stormwind
-A DK soloing the first wing of ICC
-A hunter soloing a bunch of regular dungeons
And while yes, those were all late Wrath, the tanking classes especially are strong throughout Wrath. If anything, be thankful you’re already getting the nerfed DKs.
Because a few people on the forums and youtubers said so, right. That’s their problem.
I am not. I am Unholy tanking.
The first season of WotLK? Are you referring to OG DK’s? Because we’re not playing that.
Frost does not even use Oblit in PvP because Death Knights do not stack armor pen. What.
This is not old Unholy. Unholy scales. Unholy stacks haste because pets scale off your haste. Gargoyle will do as much damage as a druid spamming wraths and cast more frequently when you have sufficient haste. Currently, we do not. Frost has more control. Frost has more burst, less sustained, but an AoE blind on a 1min CD plus burst that conveniently lines up with that CC is going to be much better in a season where Unholy does not have sufficient scaling.
Saying a prot warrior cannot do sindi is laughable. Implying that all guilds “swap out” players to do the “meta” thing is also very insightful as to how you presume things. Blood is not going to be as good as Frost or Unholy for tanking on fights like Saurfang (because frost is the most preventative of damage, unholy second, blood is the most reactive to taking damage, not preventing it). People still use Blood on H Saurfang though, don’t they?
The irony here is astounding.
Can we stop tattling on people for face-rolling trivial content? This is a time capsule game, you knew what you were getting walking into it
No, because Unholy tanking is only a dungeon thing.
I am not. I am Unholy tanking.
Nice, I’m sure you found a nice casual guild that you convinced Unholy tanking is great. By Ulduar they might start looking into your class for you when problems pop up
The first season of WotLK? Are you referring to OG DK’s? Because we’re not playing that.
I am referring to the countless 3.3.5 arena seasons that have happened on PServers. Unholy is a monster in early seasons, and later seasons they’re still good but not crazy. Frost doesn’t get much play, and when it does it’s a later phase when they have ArP.
Death Knights do not stack armor pen
Blood and Frost DKs stack ArP, just not in P1 because it’s an exponentially growing stat and the small amounts are lower EP weights
This is not old Unholy. Unholy scales
Frost scales more than Unholy. Unholy scales less than a lot of specs because they don’t utilize ArP (Like Frost does). The fact that you don’t know Frost ArP caps in Wrath scares me a bit.
It shows in the meters. Unholy will basically be top DPS until ICC, where they get beaten by a lot of specs by quite a bit.
Frost is going to be a fraction of an Unholy representation in arena. Stop coping, this is already solved. 1 AoE CC that is dispellable does not justify not running God Tier Unholy/Disc comps
I did not say they cannot do Sindy, I said they are fine until 25HSindy/LK. While progressing they will be swapped unless theres an extremely sweaty raid keeping them because they’re good enough to compensate for them. Which all guilds will be able to do once they finish that phase’s gearing.
Blood is not going to be as good as Frost or Unholy for tanking on fights like Saurfang
If you tank a raid as a DK, especially ICC, you will be Blood/Frost
I still can’t believe you think Blood DPS and Frost DPS don’t use ArP. How little googling did you do before acting like you know something on the forums? Christ
We’re already on the final patch with all the nerfs. If that’s not enough for you, you’ll have to go back to retail.
Respectfully disagree. but hey, you do you.
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Simply go to their Discord or look for any up to date guide. Unholy tanking always specificies “Dungeon tank” because Unholy just isn’t a raid tank in 3.3.5.
You might be mixing it up with OG 3.0
I’ll guarantee you that is by far an extreme exception and not the rule. Most dk’s don’t even know how to manage their runes and runic power, let alone solo an elite or two and certainly not a dungeon.
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Again, says you, the person who thinks that Death Knights who’re frost, DW or otherwise, want armor pen in PvP.
More like “I can play what I want and like because I don’t take what streamers and youtubers say as gospel”.
Oh you mean those bosses with big burst damage like the BB from Algalon that I’ll be able to tank much better with my 1-min CD than a Blood tank will? We don’t have a shadow priest to eat it.
Warmane sticks to Relentless and Wrathful seasons on the most popular servers. Unholy is not the early-game spec, it scales with haste. It scales better than Frost does. The only thing Unholy has for it early is Scourge Strike’s armor mitigated component not being as mitigated by armor because the values are lower. That’s it. All of its other big talents (WP, Impurity, Ghoul/garg) scale multiplicatively (crit, crit, and haste scaling abilities respectively). Unholy scales. Frost is early.
Frost death knights do not even value armor pen. They will not target it on PvP gear. Those slots are filled with resilience gear and the PvE offpieces that they do equip will have haste. Frost DKs do not even use Oblit in later versions of the game, it is CoI-PS spam (like Unholy does, which doesn’t even take Reaping because SS damage compared to DC is garbo, so more runic is better) for more Frost Strikes. You keep bringing up armor pen - but it doesn’t matter in DK PvP.
Again, blood does. Frost does not. Not in P1. Not ever in PvP.
And Frost does not stack it because Oblit is about the only thing that would theoretically matter - but it doesn’t. Haste > Arp. KM procs > Obliterate that may or may not crit.
The fact that you think Frost stacks arp in PvP should scare you more. Pseudo-knowledge is dangerous.
Because we use meters in PvP, the thing you’re referring to. Meanwhile, an Unholy DK in a BG/arena will do much more damage than a Frost one in the last ICC patch.
Later in the expansion? Yes, because Unholy scales. Early? Nope.
Ah, yes, because when we pop a CC we don’t use it on the healer/dispellers - especially when it’s AoE.
You can run Frost/disc too. Try it out, maybe take a break from watching those streamer/youtube videos.
Uh-huh, and then what? They’re suddenly “not fine”? Well I hate to break it to you but the essence of that point is the same as:
Mincing words isn’t a good sign for your argument.
Wow! So the people who can pull off what you believe is non-meta are suddenly “extremely sweaty”. Seems like you’re the sweaty one here. “yOu hAvE tO fOLlOw tHe MetA bEcAuSe thAt’S wHaT’S gOOd!”
Tell that to the dude who discovered what a preg paladin is.
You telling me these things does not make it true - kind of like how telling me Frost will use armor pen in PvP when it won’t because Frost Strike is way better.
You were talking PvP. In PvP Frost does not prioritize armor pen. Blood is the most physically pure dps spec Death Knights have; they’re warriors without mortal strike, so even they prioritize arp over strength - like warriors do. Frost does not. Why? Because, aside from Oblit (and Blood Strike which hits like garbage), Frost Strike, Howling Blast, Frost Fever, Blood Plague, do not scale off armor pen. Frost Strike, Howling Blast, and Killing Machine as well as autos scale off haste. Turns out doing magic damage that can always constantly crit in PvP is better than hitting a physical damage ability that may or may not crit due to resilience and needs armor pen to do anything decent.
It’s not a belief.
How many posts and sims are you going to have to look at before you realize that raiding sims don’t correlate to PvP?
More like “Unholy is so much not an option that the discord and all guides on there don’t even mention Unholy tanking outside of dungeons”
Oh you mean those bosses with big burst damage like the BB from Algalon that I’ll be able to tank much better with my 1-min CD than a Blood tank will?
You mean the thing Blood can do just fine, then also be a better tank in every other regard?
Warmane sticks to Relentless and Wrathful seasons on the most popular servers
Blackrock players (I am one of them by the way) largely had their community swap to Frostmourne arena to increase the variety in Arena. There is quite a lot of leaderboard evidence and conversation on each phase’s metas.
Unholy is not the early-game spec
It is. Without a slight doubt. Unholy/Disc will dominate 2s, along with Feral/Disc. Unholy is incredibly strong in phase 1 arena, it only lags behind near the end when ArP capped people are pulling absurd damage. Granted, in PvP you generally run around 60-70% ArP at the end but still, until then Unholy is the king of 2s and all over 3s. Not Frost. Frost lacks everything that makes Unholy even work, a monkey without a brain could kite it.
Frost death knights do not even value armor pen
Dude… Please please please go to the DK discord and get some help, this is really really bad if you think this
Again, blood does. Frost does not.
I know you’ll refuse to check out the discord, all noobs do. So here a PServer link (Which is worse than just checking out the Discord, just please go join that)
You’ll notice by ICC they are ArP capping. Please don’t pass on ArP in P4/5
And Frost does not stack it because Oblit is about the only thing that would theoretically matter - but it doesn’t. Haste > Arp. KM procs > Obliterate that may or may not crit.
I can’t get over this. FROST ARP CAPS IN WRATH. You don’t early on just like any other ArP user because it’s an exponential stat, but you make the hard switch with everyone else! Don’t avoid ArP late Wrath! That’s why Frost passes Unholy in raid DPS is because of ArP capping!
Because we use meters in PvP, the thing you’re referring to. Meanwhile, an Unholy DK in a BG/arena will do much more damage than a Frost one in the last ICC patch.
… Unholy beats frost in BG/arena in literally every phase, what does even mean?
Because we use meters in PvP
You responded to this when the words after it were specifying Meters in ICC… What PvP are you doing in ICC?
Ah, yes, because when we pop a CC we don’t use it on the healer/dispellers - especially when it’s AoE.
Go Unholy for PvP
You can run Frost/disc too. Try it out, maybe take a break from watching those streamer/youtube videos.
I’ve faced them on Blackrock, they’re usually 1600 teams, pretty easy to beat. One trick pony comp. Unholy/Disc though, thats a rough team to fight.
Uh-huh, and then what? They’re suddenly “not fine”? Well I hate to break it to you but the essence of that point is the same as:
Yes they literally get 1 shot, and Prot Pally/DK/Bear can all survive it. So yes, glad to see you don’t know these fights. Glad you’re here theorycrafting non-arp Frost DKs and Unholy tanks. The Discord isn’t ready for your incredible mind.
Yes, I had to specify this because you will never be in these groups. If you told them you were an Unholy tank they’d post a picture of your quote and pin it in a meme channel in their discord. You arent the player who will play on this level.
Preg Pally is a very theorycrafted and practiced thing. Unlike Unholy Tank, or ArP-avoiding Frost DK
Oh god next you’re going to go on about how good Blood DPS is, aren’t you? Sigh.
How many posts and sims are you going to have to look at before you realize that raiding sims don’t correlate to PvP?
You just… look at leaderboards and PvP communities… I’ve literally arenad on Warmane for over 5 years, and a few of those years were also Blackrock PvP. Go to their communities and bring up Frost DK PvP. It’s rarely a thing and it’s for 1600 memers.
Can imagine your poor Disc priest carrying you. “Why do we keep losing to these Unholy/Disc teams? They do 3 times your damage :(” “I do so much more burst than them and my aoe freeze is so good”
Listen… everything is balanced around lvl 80.
I guess we need to nerfs mages too right
And prot warriors
Those 2 are even more ridiculous
Fire will be less absurd without all the secondary stats.
Prot actually gets more absurd at 80 than it is now (in PvP), you’ll love it 