I mean the existence of Unholy Presence completely stated otherwise. If anything of a slower playstyle, it’d be Frost Dks which it has been captured decently well in WoD thanks to Conversion.
He’s right about Pestilence. It’s a worthless talent that should be merged with Defile. No talent row should ever be augmenting a same ability.
I can understand why he wants Army CDR: Unholy Dks can’t use Army of the Dead in Arenas.
Everything else seems a bit excessive though. If anything what Unholy actually needs: Gary needs to be baseline and take Necrotic Plague in its place. Unholy Blight historically has always been a talent option.
I still want Runic Empowerment and Corruption to be entropic (AKA not completely random)...
It doesn’t exist. That’s the point. Designs change. Unholy is really fun right now barring one or two minor things. Throwing it out the window to turn it into an unholy DH is the wrong answer.
You’re right, designs change. Often times, not for the better.
Unholy Presence doesn’t exist now. But still, it was a thing that grants GCD redox and essentially free haste as long as you sit on that presence. Let alone fitting a class fantasy of a Melee Affliction Warlock. With the removal of Unholy Presence and an addition of Festering Wounds, this is no longer the case.
I’m glad you’re having fun with Unholy even though it’s going through an identity crisis right now: Frost does more rot damage than Unholy.
I thought Unholy is the necromancer spec that specializes in wither, rot and decay. A specialization to cause suffering immeasurable that not even death can save your enemies from you but worse. While the latter is plenty the former is lacking with the absence of Necrotic Plague.
… and I’m also baffled that why doesn’t Unholy Diseases scale with Haste and lack scaling compared to Frost Fever.
I have it at 4 even on raz on non phasing fights,still trash.
@ Key- the class never recovered after it was slowed down, death of a thousand cuts, plus the need to dump resources (sudden doom,frost strike) while managing cds which are all on global end up working against the dps specs more than they help. Neither frost or unholy were ment to be played slowly, now add in that you play slow and deal negligible damage whilst playing slow.
Can’t claim that the ‘drawing’ factor works considering its one of the least played classes overall in the game. Damage would have to be buffed considerably for the model you prefer to work insofar as the ‘drawing’ factor.
The Legion rework broke what was fun with playing unholy for me. I hate not having a 1 sec gcd, I hate festering wounds and I hate how much damage has been baked into AoTD. I mained DK up to that point and never even considered switching, but after Legion I’ve played alts a lot more, trying to find one that’s my playstyle.
Okay I’ll bite. Dps DK in keys at least isn’t doing well because it doesn’t want vers. They scale poorly in keys but so do warrs. Ever play with a fury on dealer in a high Tyran? Floor pov…
But DK takes time to set up and has to spec aoe or st focus. Warriors do not. Both their tank specs have few issues. Prot does great dam but little squishy but magic affects. Where blood is insanely tanky but does low damage.
Might change in the new patch personally I’m going to main blood in 9.2. having a ton of fun I’ve dpsed to 20s as unholy feels lack of mobility it what hurts.
I love tanking as blood. And despite what some people want, I love how unholy dk feels to play. I’d like a little more damage, but the gameplay loop is very satisfying, at least in pve.
One thing I would add is either make deathcoil an aoe/merge it with epidemic, or allow epidemic to benefit from some of the deathcoil synergies.
And let’s not get it twisted either, DK damage isn’t top of the Meta, but it’s not terrible either.
it would also be nice if we got IT back as a dispell, AMS soaking generated RP again, and spending RP generated energy for our ghoul.
would also be nice if unholy had different pet options. an abomb for tanking, ghoul for physical melee damage, archer skeleton for ranged physical, and banshee for ranged magic/debuffs. each also getting a different ability to use in pvp as a petkick alternative while DT is active.
also on army dropping its CD, i would rather it be a talent and the pvp abomb be baseline in its place, or it go back to a 20m cd and have our damage not be balanced around always having it up.
I’ve always found unholy to be very clunky in keys and pve in general. Every time I try it, it just feels so dull, frost isn’t exciting but at least it’s not GCD and setup hell.
Aide from myself and maybe 3 other DKs I see almost no DKs queued above 20s. I said it in another thread, but I probably wouldn’t even invite myself to keys. DKs definitely have utility, but it’s very niche. Like, very very niche imo.
Currently, DK lacks in damage, lacks notable utility, and due to mobility can be heavily punished vs other classes. Really no reason to take a DK over more than half the DPS specs.
Blood is lookin to be pretty solid, sort of wish I invested more time into tanking this tier. Will probably drop my DK next patch for survival, that set bonus is lookin tasty for M+
Unfortunately DK gameplay has been progressively eroded since Legion, for Unholy especially. We had a more cohesive design and access to the tools that we needed back in MoP/WoD, which were mostly flushed in Legion.
Adding Festering Wounds, the removal of artifact traits, and the GCD changes that were not fully reverted all really hurt how well the spec plays. I’d be very happy if they would revert Unholy back to WoD and just add Apocalypse.
Yep, this is the case in pretty much all endgame content. Can you make it work? Sure, if you’re happy putting in 3x the effort for 80% of the output, relative to better melee specs.
There are a lot of easy changes that could be made to give us massive improvements, but class design just hasn’t been a priority for the last couple of expansions (not a DK exclusive problem). We never even got the talent revamp that was promised for 9.1.5, so chances are the tier sets and more covenant tuning are all we’re going to get for 9.2 which won’t fix any of the base issues.
Since it doesn’t appear to be addressed, and the fact that the OP isn’t really having an honest argument by including shield block which requires weapon swapping, which no one really does anymore, all of these are available to all warrior specs.
But yeah, warriors also can’t heal themselves mid-fight without having killed something in the preceding 20 seconds, or dropping Double Time (2x Charge) or Stormbolt, or being Fury and blowing a 3m cd in exchange for any notable healing. Also, uh, death strike heals a marginal amount if you use it with a modicum of intelligence after taking a large hit, as long as you’re not whittled away by rot damage which would diminish the value by a pretty wide margin.
He’s also completely discounting the monstrous level of utility warriors bring and downplaying it for conversations’ sake. Rally, DbtS+Challenging Shout (Arms), potentially necrolord banner, and a bunch of other wacky, zany junk that warriors can do.
that’s a subjective opinion
it’s a pushing point to me rather than a drawing point
basically an aoe interrupt in keys, but yeah pretty useless otherwise
I dont know where this slow playstyle came from other than WoD and onward. It was a fast paced hard hitter with a little bit of ramp up time. 1 sec GCD, runes started to recharge immediately, Horn of Winter was not only a raid buff but gave RP, Blood Tap to give a death rune, ERW for a total reset, increased RP pool, increased RP generation with certain talents, increased attack speed with the frost tree, increased movement speed from unholy presence, hard to stop with on a pale horse.
It was objectively a fast paced hard hitter (unholy was rot damage) that was hard to stop.
Even 2h frost, if you played it for some reason, was objectively faster paced than what we have now by leaps and bounds.
it came from haste becoming a driving force in legion that determines how fast every single spec in the game plays
before classes more or less had ways to personally reduce their gcd to a quicker pace be it through stances/presences, talents, or it just came naturally by virtue of playing the class
legion honestly was one of the worst things to happen to class design across the board imo
we didn’t need yet another super slow plate spec, let alone class, arms warrior had that covered
The Unholy Presence change happened in MoP from what I can find. The GCD reduction was in Wrath / Cata (reducing the global cooldown on your abilities by 0.5 sec.) In MoP that was gone.
It had attack speed, rune regeneration and movement speed. Still one of the best options for PvE content since it was like having 10% haste that didnt affect GCD.
And you are right, we dont need yet another slow plate spec. Arms and Ret I would say is pretty slow at least until you get a healthy amount of haste for Ret.
Legion brought in stuff I didnt like, but the gcd thing was 2 expansions sooner.
Specs shouldn’t be crippled because of intangible feels, or to hand hold bad players. I typically end up 80th percentile plus overall on logs when I’m engaged with dk or whatever in playing.
These last two tiers I didn’t give a dann about my parses. You look like you live there, which is fine but its also why you don’t tune specs around what mediocre dps players want. You end up with something no one wants to play, which is objectively the case right now for dk in both pvp and pve.
Oh, I’m so wounded. Crap, I had to go get 2400 to have my feedback taken seriously in the m+ forum, I guess I need to go parse as unholy in raids now too for this forum too. Sheesh.
How about you just step back and stop trying to disqualify viewpoints you don’t agree with. My opinion is as valid as anyone else’s.
He didnt discredit your opinion, he just said that they shouldnt balance around certain things. Should they do anything to BoS because people dont like it?
This slow gameplay stuff that has been going on, the removal of hybrid builds and so on has been nothing but bad player hand holding. This isnt just for DK either, its across the board. DK was fast paced, so why did they slow it down, a lot, a lot a lot? Why take away the different types of runes? Why make it so you had to put x points into a tree before being able to spend points in another tree?
Its because of bad players. Even Blizzard said it was because of bad players and they didnt want people to be able to just put points into whatever tree and come up with a build that underperformed and people complain about it. They took away rune conversion… why? People couldnt hit a certain ability every other rune rotation? Why remove rune types at all? Was red blue and yellow too hard of a code to crack or something? Its Blizzard protecting people from themselves. Blizzard needs to let people burn themselves on the stove at some point.