survivability is absolute dog water, lesson clearly hasnt been learned, giga buff deathstrike
28 Likes
Buff Death Strike! The class doesn’t work without it.
21 Likes
It was so predictable.
The nerfs to survivabiltiy along with many other classes getting buffed crushed this class.
What may appear as a small nerf is compounded exponentially when other classes receive buffs.
Now what appeared as compensation with a sizeable dps gain with the new pvp talent affecting pillar of frost & remorseless winter was basically rescended making what is nothing more than a class being gutted.
What happens when streamers/content creators have influence on a game. The ability was not that bad and was easily healed through.
Once all the stamina buffs from pvp trinkets and conquest gear are attained that ability would have been ok at best without any nerfs. Seems like the vetting of the class was little or non at best.
2 Likes
Yeah, it’s kind of a sad thing. I’ve ended up switching to my Warrior because my DK just doesn’t feel good to play right now. Shame too because the DK fits a fantasy I enjoy perfectly.
I’m still holding out hope that we’re one of the next ones up for a major rework like the paladin and Hunter have gotten. Maybe focusing on the anti-paladin theme.
8 Likes
Has it been good according to anyone posting here? All I have seen are the same people complaining since BFA. Get what you want? Complain. Get what you dont want? Complain.
I know people want the “slow juggernaut” but thats what you guys got with this talent. Even though some people say it was easily healed through and all this stuff, apparently it wasnt. It was clearly overpowered damage. People wanted this slow moving “ill kill you if i reach you” type of thing and people dont like being slow, and people dont like playing against uber damage.
Blizzard has no idea what you guys want, I dont even know and I have been reading what you guys want for 4 expansions now, getting what you want, and then complaining about it. What message does that give to Blizzard? To me it tells them just ignore DK because the people giving the requests arent going to be happy anyways. Say Blizzard ignores DK long enough its going to eventually become true.
So what exactly do you guys want?
4 Likes
I think most frost dks worth their salt would agree that we did not need this new pvp talent. What we needed was our sustained damage buffed, and for death strike to not feel as weak as it does currently. We have reliable gap closers with our grips and chains of ice. Now we have a horse for those who want to go that route. However, now we’re also pretty much required to run this new pvp talent since it’s what is keeping us from getting left in the dust in the damage department. It would feel better for remorseless winter to simply be a giga slow on a respectable cool down and for our main abilities to actually hit hard. I want my obliterate to feel like it will obliterate my opponent when I connect on the procs.
4 Likes
A Death Strike buff.
8 Likes
Death strike buff would be nice.
Also why is rime damage so pathetic in PvP? This junk needs to do about double its current damage to be worth using. Even buffed by all talents it’s still not worth using over an obliterate unless you need to spread frost fever.
3 Likes
Its not going to be like it was. Its also not the fault of the battle with the devs. People were on here talking about how they could 5v1 and sustain themselves with DS. That is too strong.
Im off playing Cata and having fun with it. Both Frost and Unholy and its not the top performer there either. Its middle of the road.
Cool, disable the reactive component in pvp and just buff the flat % healing. Reactive healing in PvP isn’t healthy for the game, blizz learned this lesson in MoP, but then unlearned it in Legion/BFA for some reason.
I’ve never played a version of the game where I could sustain 5v1 against people with similar gear, but I’ve also never played a version of the game where I can’t stomp under geared people 5v1 regardless of what class I’m playing.
2 Likes
The highest this has ever been was 15% and with Unholy that was a total of 45% of your health bar depending on your rune rotation. Your damage went to garbage though.
From the other posters in this thread it doesnt sound like DK is absolute trash to play and things here and there need to be changed for an aspect to be a little better. There are other things that I can point to that were absolute trash. True trash. Cata Ret, Cata Destruction, Masterfrost Frost, Morbidity Unholy. These things perform quite well but play like a burning garbage pile.
Nothing… absolutely NOTHING of the DK feels as bad as keeping Inquisition up. 18-24 seconds before you can use Templar’s Verdict. Ret in cata was the slow juggernaut of WoW. 24 seconds to do around 200k damage (TV crit + mastery). It wasnt slow moving, but it was slow in gameplay. Haste didnt even reduce the melee GCD for ret.
DK in TWW isnt anywhere close to being absolute trash to play.
Cool, lets try a bigger number than the the 9.1% we have right now. As for the damage being trash when you choose to heal, that’s actually a good thing, it should be a choice to play offensively or defensively, if you can remember back to BFA I was ringing the alarm bells on the forums that Death Strike was broken because it dealt more damage than death coil for unholy, but blizzard didn’t seem to care.
I played destro in pvp during cata, it was absolute garbage, I’ve also played San’layn unholy in pvp during TWW and it is also absolute garbage. Rider’s unholy still feels like garbage to play but it can actually put up some numbers, mostly just by pressing one button (summon abomination) so it’s kind of a mindless spec, and leaves your rotation feeling useless, you’ve even commented yourself on how you can ignore diseases with little loss, especially as your cds auto apply them.
The DK players I see, and myself are all basically saying the same thing “Let our rotation hit hard” but instead of doing that blizzard just slaps on another cooldown or buffs another cooldown, it’s quite frustrating.
i would rather see something more like “DK should do more damage than others due to having a more complex setup” i see no problem with topping the charts pressing 10 buttons, it creates a sense of reward when you master the class and do top the chart. the problem is blizz is aiming for equality of outcome, so classes that press 2-3 buttons have to do the same damage as classes with 10 button setups, and this just makes the complex classes feel bad with no reward for actually mastering the class.
frankly, if someone does X damage with 2-3 buttons, 2-3 of my buttons should do the same damage, but when i use all 10, they should never get close. only other 10 button setups should get to be at the top of the chart.
1 Like
Frost was at 10%. So there really isnt much of a difference. This is basically Wrath Frost Healing.
Which means what exactly? To me, and probably many others, this literally means nothing. Does it mean abilities hit hard? Which ones? All of them? 1? Does this mean if you play your rotation / priority list properly then you dish out a ton of damage?
is this like sustained damage or burst? Sustained brings up the low end of the ability, reduces the high end to average it out over time. Its more consistent. Burst has lower consistency for a higher burst window like Cata Ret. Its probably one of the most hated specs ever in all of WoW. The big windows would happen every 5 minutes, needed Inquisition, Avenging Wrath, Trinkets, Zealotry and Guardian of Ancient Kings to get these big burst windows and then it just disappeared.
Frost on the other hand has more sustain consistent damage. Its highs are lower, but its much more consistent damage. The difference between a low Frost Strike crit and a high Frost Strike crit isnt that much.
So if we look at like the burst spec Cata Ret
66k TV low end, 122k high end. and then add about 66% more damage to each of those. So thats like 109k and 202k.
Cata Frost is much more consistent. The main hand sees a 15k difference with 30k low end crit and 45k high end crit. So realistically its like 50k low end crits and 75k high end crits.
So what exactly do people want? You cant have sustain and hit extremely hard at the same time.
the new talent does buff sustain damage through more remorseless winter damage and a guaranteed way to recast a second remorseless winter to retain gathering storm
its just hard to see when you cant actually connect to the targets because you are rp walking
also the increased pillar CD is kinda troll too
grip sure, chains of ice meh almost every class i can think of has a way out, or even multiple ways out of chains now
yuuup
i understand the sentiment, but the current talent isnt flawed, except for the downsides it has, if it didnt increase pof cd and didnt slow you it would be really good
2 Likes
Not quite as the resources have changed quite a bit. In Wrath you generate 6 runes in 10 seconds, considering the blood runes are only death runes half the time that is about 2.5 death strikes or ~25% healing per 10 seconds. In TWW you generate 3 runes per 10 seconds and then consume them to generate 30 runic power which when combined with frost fever, festering wound and auto attack for the extra 5 RP it lets you use about 1 death strike, or 9.1% healing per 10 seconds.
We can take the death runes off of frost and say they are consumed by the obligatory disease refresh required for wrath death strike and wrath frost can sustain about 2% healing per second, TWW frost/unholy can sustain about 1% healing per second, death strike has plenty of room to grow.
For me it means sustain damage. Increase the damage floor decrease the damage ceiling, allow death knights to deal more pressure outside of cooldown windows with the inevitable trade off of dealing less pressure during cooldown windows. Yes this would be similar to Cata Frost or Cata Unholy. When I press scourge strike or obliterate I want it to actually do something by itself, I don’t want to have to hit a series of cooldowns just to see my attacks actually dent my opponents health bar, I don’t want to drop someone in 3 gcds every 3 minutes and do nothing in between.
make blood forged phys res 40% and last 5 secs at least so we don’t get 3 shot by ANY physical dmg I swear DK has a baked in to take 100% more dmg from physical sources
sort of. there has been a long understood problem with DK armor value where we take more damage than we should, the devs never could find the issue and countered the bug by giving us more stamina, this is why DPS DKS got access to tank levels of stam.
this also means the 20% nerf to armor values in pvp to all plate wearers hurt DK substantially more than warrior or paladin.
and personally, i do think there is a malicious or bias’d dev who does sabotage DK, the evidence is so mounting on this its a mountain at this point.
2 Likes
Where is this from exactly?
if anyone had that answer im sure they would have fixed it by now