Hello,
Can someone show me how they would have their general tree for UH/Frost pvp while having death’s echo? I feel like no matter what I do, I can’t find myself getting it and happy with the build at the same time.
There’s a lot of different choices you can make depending on the exact situation but something like this is how I set it up.
Here’s my logic. With that build you get both a stun and a blind, Death’s Echo, Will of the Necropolis and Blood Draw. Those talents will make you really hard to kill. Also it means you can keep both Abomination Limb and Empower Rune Weapon.
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I think the opportunity cost for Death’s Echo is too high, the unholy side of the tree is a massive sink for not much return IMO.
This is how I’d go about getting Death’s Echo against melee, it’s not something I am happy doing, but Empower Rune Weapon had to be sacrificed, you can choose between it and Abomination Limb depending on compositions.
I just can’t in good conscience put points into Blood Draw and we’re still wasting points on Unholy Ground and the worst talent in the game in Suppression. I am NOT a fan of our general tree, I think it’s one of the weakest designs of all classes in Dragonflight.
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You’re trying to avoid too many talents which is why your builds are terrible. You don’t need two chains of ice. Runic Attenuation does what exactly in PvP? All your damage is tied to your CD’s not your runic power spenders. Insidious Chill is also useless auto attack damage doesn’t kill anyone in PvP. March of Darkness is a luxury and 3% avoidance is even worse than the talents you keep trying to avoid.
You don’t get brittle because of your hatred of the Unholy tree. Somehow you wound up without AMZ which I just can’t comprehend. Do you even PvP on this class? Even into melee it’s necessary into rogues, ret’s, and DH. You still don’t get empower rune weapon.
You’re just mad for no reason at this point. No ones general tree is that much different than the Unholy one.
Look, I’m not mad about a video game, I am just calling out the mediocre talents and want changes to bring those talents up to scratch. You can’t honestly believe Clenching Grasp, Enfeeble or Blood Draw for example are good talents? Blood Draw will heal you for what 7000HP per target every 2mins for a two point investment.
Double chains of Ice against a melee cleave is absolutely a good choice and your team mate who’s trying to escape that pain train is going to appreciate it. More runes and global’s for damage.
Brittle is alright if you’re using Superstrain. Without it, that proc rate is rubbish and and the damage and duration are too small to even be felt or to provide any meaningful damage.
Runic Attenuation may or may not be a choice depending on how Death Coil ends up, but when you factor in Death Rot and other DC talents, more DCs equal more damage and also a more powerful gargoyle which we will probably be taking this expansion.
Insidious Chill will reduce alot of damage from heavy auto-attackers like DKs, Warriors, Outlaw rogues, Havoc DHs, rets etc. Alot of these classes rely on autos for procs or resource generating, a 20% decrease could very well hamper their total output lessening the stress on your healer. Probably not something that’s impact at low ratings, but when you routinely see games at the AWC going into dampening, that’s alot of possible damage mitigated.
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Cant afford getting Death Echo if youre frost as it currently stands.
Its so far on the unholy side but i think it should be more in the middle as all specs could use it.
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UHDK:
FDK DW:
FDK 2h:
I do not have beta yet but this is what looks good on paper to me. I think deaths echo is worth while. It synergizes with a lot of our tool kit.
imagine playing 2h obliteration without icecap
Not hard to imagine since we have been doing since forever. Not sure what you are so ornery about.
I don’t see the issue even though you can do it now. Rather have ERW mini lust line up with pillar every min especially now that icecap is 2 seconds down from 4. Cold heart is definitely not a good talent for pvp but its the best path where you can seriously go ape every min and get razor ice from avalanche.
Also not my fault we have so many talents which should be baseline and/or multi point talents.
Trying not to be toxic here, but icecap is an absolute lock in for any obliteration build. 80% of your damage comes from that PoF window so shortening it’s CD by a minimum of 12seconds is huge. It is also super important for PvP because it will desync your go with their defensives which is why currently fDK is very hard to play in higher brackets.
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FDK sucks now because there is no throughput outside pillar.
I am hoping having a mini lust being up 1/3 of the time and having 2 baked in former legendary items with howling blast hitting hard changes that. Not sold on the desync theory.
Ya but what im saying is you will 100% choose icecap obliteration with 2h frost everytime, It makes pillar roughly a 28-36s cooldown, It will be short enough that instead of 2 pillars in 2 minutes youll have 4 lol how is that not good for obliteration
It will be mandatory
correct, but its also because your cooldown is a static 1m cd
Now we still dont do crazy damage outside cds, but the catch is we have cds up every 30s instead of a whole 1m
its functionally so much better and obliteration if at any point was gonna compete with breath build, its now
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I think 4 in 2min is a stretch. I’m not saying its bad lol. It is obviously good, but mandatory is a bit much. I do like how there is no talent waste with cold heart.
The build I posted is still viable. I was still mostly thinking about Death’s Echo. 
This is why I like talent trees. More than one way to do something. Think they have done a decent job of that, but could work on more baseline or less multi point talents.
it will be 4 in 2m, maybe even more homie, ive been testing this extensively, Early xpac you may see a drop in secondary stats so it will be longer in the early days compared to as the xpac rolls on
Coldheart needs to change places with shattering strikes, shattering strikes needs to change place with frigid executioner/rage of the frozen champion, And frigid executioner/rage of the frozen champion need to go where coldheart currently is as the gateway to empower rune weapon.
I like your suggestions, and I think it makes the point there is more work to be done with talents and scaling before we can start arguing about what build is the best. Cheers
Did you play season 1 of SL. Because fDK was super strong because of that. Soon as they removed heartstopper fDK dropped off a cliff.
There is nothing wrong with a burst based spec for PvP, but when there are so many cc/defensives that line up with 1min it means you are just always countered. We have a lot of tools now to promote more sustain which is great, but icecap synergizes so well with obliteration it’s CRAZY to not take.
Somehow, I get the feeling that my Frost DK tree wasn’t that liked than I thought. It has a lot of talent nodes that I thought it’d address Chillpills’ concerns.
… Oh well.
Not sure what i’d do to the General Class Tree and I’m dabbling on copium that hopefully it’s not final.
But yea, Icecap+Obliteration is too good to pass up.
When was the general tree last addressed? I don’t think it’s had any changes for ages.
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Since they made Lichborne and Death’s Advance baseline?
I don’t know.
All I know currently is that the general DK tree looks a bit lacking.
Gloom Ward is nice and so is Will of the Necropolis. Along with Permafrost. Interesting utility from Insidious Chill.
But there are some nodes whom are insultingly bad like Clenching Grasp, Sad Reaper (Need moar dammies) and Icy Talon which for some reason is in a 20+ talent territory.
…and Mind Freeze is still not baseline. 
It has to be incomplete. They can’t leave us needing to be allocated while Warriors get Pummel Baseline.
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Control Undead, Enfeeble, Brittle (only “good” with Super strain), Clenching Grasp and Blood Draw definitely need a big looking over.
Also not a fan of Rune Mastery, I think we have enough RNG BS without another arbitrary buff to track.