I am literally tickling people in both dps specs ESPECIALLY Frost in PVP … this is ridiculous. Meanwhile Ret and MM are melting people
4 Likes
Get some gear and enchants
2 Likes
Played in a Random bg tonight. Oblits were sub 800-1.2k and mages and warlocks spells were hitting me for 3-5k. My ilvl is 127 (476 before squish) and fully enchanted with 130 azerite gear in all 3 slots. Probably won’t log on this character again (if there is a reason to) until 60 days after launch. Used to being top damage in randoms, but I was lucky to stay in the middle of the pack for overall damage. Hunters were pretty awesome too in terms of output. Need to figure what to roll next. Any ideas?
2 Likes
Heavily this. You’re basically at a boosted toon’s iLvl which is incredibly low, especially for PvP.
That’s pre-patch for you.
1 Like
The issue comes from beta. Blizzard had this grand idea of loading some Obliterate boosting talents to the end of SL leveling. As a result, they have gone back and made pre-SL Obliterate do so little damage it may as well heal the enemy at this point.
The irony of all this was even before this nonsense, Frost DK was at best a mid-tier when it came to actual damage output which makes one wonder why the devil we needed these changes in the first place.
6 Likes
Prepatch “balance” is irrelevant.
1 Like
Lmao your excuse for me is to “gear up” and your excuse to the other guy whos geared and complaining about the same thing is, “it is what it is”
3 Likes
There is “prepatch balance woes” and then there is “Paladin’s TV hitting literally ten times harder than Obliterate while self-healing more than some classes can DPS”.
No matter how you want to try and spin it, a core spec ability named “Obliterate” of all things should not be doing auto-attack levels of damage at any level period.
3 Likes
TV requires building 3 Holy Power to hit.
Obliterate you can spam on pull.
One is a builder, the other a spender.
And anyway, it’s pre-patch : if you guys didn’t know Ret was a damage monster from Savix telling you multiple times, I don’t know what to say. Go play Ret.
2 Likes
Ok, let’s run with that line of logic for the moment and ignore the fact a skill called bloody “Obliterate” is being considered as a low-DPS resource builder.
What exactly are we building up to then? Frost Strike which only hits slightly harder than the castrated Obliterate…?
1 Like
It could be called “Enchanted Potato Peeler”, that has nothing to do with its mechanics. As a Rune ability, and as a class that starts combat with full runes, the Ability is spammable.
Runic.
Which triggers your Runic Empowerment to grant you runes.
Unbuffed Obliterates won’t hit hard. The goal is get some Killing Machines going. That’s where your big Obliterates come from, not naked spammable Obliterates. Frost might not be the typical build/spender spec in that both Frost Strike and Obliterate are builders, and what you’re ultimately doing is gaming those Killing Machines and Rime procs. More Obliterates, more Rimes while waiting for those Auto Crits to work their magic.
With all the new buffs to Obliterate, especially Koltiras’ and the new Killing Machine Rank 2, Obliteration, which gives you complete control over your KM procs, was overperforming.
After having the term “class fantasy” jammed down our throat for the best part of three expansions now, I would argue it actually should matter. Not that this was really the point I was going for in the first place but you will be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn’t think Obliterate is, or at least should be, the core DPS tool of the Frost DK in single-target situations.
And that’s fine. If anything, some more depth to the Frost playstyle would be a good thing. The problem however, is the next point…
…And this is where the whole thing comes off the rails.
Firstly, Frost DK as it stands is almost utterly unplayable. Saying that it is perfectly fine that a class cannot even function properly for 58 of its 60 levels is nothing short of an admission of failure. No other spec in the game is this hamstrung by their SL talents retroactively making their core rotation do comical levels of damage.
Secondly, this whole “overperforming” claim is absolute nonsense. Again, look at any DPS report from raid testing or pretty much whatever you like really from beta. At no point is Frost DK even in the top 10 of specs let alone anywhere close to the top. Last I saw, they were hovering somewhere around the 20th spot and that was before this foolishness. We are completely blown away by Unholy in virtually every fight and Unholy isn’t exactly high tier either.
Even if everything played out exactly like you claim, Frost DKs become a wonderful and complete spec at max level at the expense of being absolute garbage right up to that point, there is no bloody payoff. We are still a mid to low tier DPS spec and that again was BEFORE the recent nerfs. So again, we come back to my initial point; Why? Because if this is what we are pitching while we are “overperforming”, I dread to see how much of a clown show things will be if this goes unchecked.
5 Likes
Pre patch is a shambles. All that matters is what comes in Shadowlands.
Obliterate nerfs are disappointing for sure but tuning isnt done and even then it’s tuned around legendary and conduit powers.
We are always going to be a mid tier dps class the top tiers are always comprised of the triple dps spec quartets of Hunter rogue mage and warlock because all they can do is dps so at least one of their specs needs to be top end.
We have tanking bring alot of pve utility (as frost we have options of multiple disables, AMZ, 2 quite strong defensive cds, a strong self heal against burst damage). We are a much more defensive oriented dps in pve, because of this we take alot of hits in pvp to our healing which lowers sustain in pve (conduits do help with this). All of our utility stacks as well 2 DKs double AMZ duration, 2 mages offer 1 time warp total.
Frost is still fine, I only had to change from Frozen Pulse to Avalanche since I am now using a 2h weapon and Frozen Pulse is not worth taking since the 2h weapon attacks much slower than my dual swords did.
1 Like
I mean, I remember the Cataclysm prepatch when arcane mages were literally 1-shotting everyone so… not really. Prepatch gonna prepatch. Balance is irrelevant right now, level 60 is the only thing Blizzard cares about.
Except lv 60 Beta Frost DK is also mediocre to low in DPS rankings. As I have pointed out multiple times in this thread already.
No level below max level should be taken into account in any balancing. All lower levels exist as a path to endgame.
You’re either being intentionally facetious or you’re using outdated dps rankings.
Good thing tuning ISN’T DONE THEN