I HATE unholy and pet ‘management’. I HATE Breath of Sindragosa as well.
3 Likes
You have to be brain dead not to know why he didn’t use mythic. I will spell it out for you. Because heroic has the largest sample size. Also, his graph was ripped off warcraftlogs in the first place. You also want to look at the most recent week because folks have more optimized gear and other classes could have recent nerfs/buffs.
You truly are a putz. How is any of that hard to decipher?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/31#dataset=90&sample=7&difficulty=4
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/32#sample=7&dataset=90
Frost is in a terrible state. Obliteration builds are performing horribly. BoS 1min+ breath playstyle is the dumbest thing ever.
It is reflected in the game data. Both performance and representation are trash. It is reflected empirically by observing comments made here and on other media by users who actually play the spec/game.
Putting you back on ignore now.
14 Likes
I don’t think we need a full rework like Blizz said Ret is getting. A talent tree once over like warriors or ferals got recently would be good. I just want an oblit playstyle to be a viable option for M+ without feeling like an anchor dragging down the groups chances at timing the key. It’s feels bad to be forced to play an alt I don’t enjoy as much and be meeting or beating my DK’s dps output, easily, with ~20 ilvls lower than the dk. That’s not a skill issue, as I am nowhere near as proficient at these alts as I am with the character i’ve mained for a decade now.
5 Likes
Til you can ignore ppl on the forums. Holy smokes. Finally no more endless posts and complaints from that one cringe poster who I can’t stand lol.
2 Likes
Obliteration, obliterate, and frostreaper prevents a lot of stuff from happening. With Obliterates low baseline if you do buff frostscythe to where it would need to be to compete with cleaving strikes, frostscythe might take over in single target outside of KM procs, but since Frostscythe also uses KM it would be easy for Frostscythe to eat the proc. Frostscythe would need to be increased by 300% to be good on 3+ targets.
If anything needs a rework its Obliteration, Obliterate and Frostreaper. Its unhealthy for the spec as a whole.
Did we ever stop to think that maybe Frost was perfect and doesn’t need any changes?
hehe…I’m not serious. Just was laughing at that idea.
5 Likes
I mean, if soulreaper proced killing machine during pillar, And if BoS was changed to do ramping damage based on the # of targets its cleaving, Frost would be a lot easier to tune, and overall would probably be a lot better in PvE
Soulreaper procing killing machine is critical for PvP and PvE though because for obliteration just imagine the execute pressure we would have if we could continue doing our core rotation while also effectively bringing their health down in chunks because its not hindering our rotation to use soulreaper, In PvE this would just mean a lot of massive hits on an npc for a really long time and without a doubt it would make obliteration better in single target than BoS, in PvP this means soulreaper contributes to your next obliterate which contributes to keeping the target low enough to get soulreaper to proc
youd be surprised how the littlest of changes can really make the largest difference
Also willing to bet theres no good PvE fdks out there who know how to actually play obliteration and thats probably why you dont see it, I bet you obliteration is actually pretty good if the right player is the one bringing it into the mix. Doesnt mean its the meta, but fdk representation is already so low that its hard to say how much of it is from being balanced bad vs just not having a lot of data other than from meh players
5 Likes
That Epidemic / Blight change its really bad. Don´t let it go to live please It would decrease horribly our dmg during PVP encounters. Please do not get this change and just make epidemic baseline for Unholy.
2 Likes
Counter point, Breath of sindragosa is unhealthy for the spec since its too hard to balance properly and having to pull off massive breaths with too many variable factors. Frost reaper rules and feels really good to press with obliteration.
9 Likes
PTR is open. Cruise over and start making our case for FDK changes.
Also, the epidemic change is horrible. Just make it baseline.
3 Likes
Its not hard to balance. Again BoS removes other RP spenders from play almost entirely. If people cant keep it going then thats really their fault. When people are getting like 92% uptime on it in the hardest difficulty then its a skill issue.
If Obliterate only feels good in Obliteration windows or KM procs then Frostreaper is a failure and preventing other things like Frostscythe from coming into play. Its our aoe rune spender option that just cant compete due to Obliterate + Frostreaper outside of high mob density.
Frostreaper is one of the single biggest mistakes made for Frost DK’s since SL. Other builds were coming in and not just BoS in both Legion and BFA even though people want to suggest it was BoS all day every day. Frostscythe was actually used in aoe scenarios (the target cap that came with SL didnt help anything either). BoS is going to be balanced around the people that can use it. The ability itself can be tuned and it doesnt have a ton of modifiers like all the base abilities do. If you can use it its really the only stable damage option in the whole spec.
Ok so whats the timer balance point then? 1minute? 2minutes? 30 seconds? Which dungeon or boss are these times feasable on? You keep it rolling until its good to go again? Maybe you get targetted in a raid for a mechanic and it wrecks your log. Encounters don’t work that way.
It feels good whenever it procs, I have high crit chance so I get plenty procs. My gameplay feels good because of it. Then buff frostscythe? Make it worth pressing over Obilt in multi target situations. The fact blizzard hasn’t done this is just negligence tbh and is due to a much needed tuning pass.
Once again Frostreaper rules and I find it awesome, it’s truely one of the greatest things we ever got. Yup I used FrostS in BFA m+ and it did serious work. As I said above it needs buffed or tuning or whatever. If that’s case for breath id love to know the benchmark time for a ‘good’ or ‘balanced’ breath.
Also could I have a look at those 92% logs please? Wouldn’t mind getting my head around them.
1 Like
Except people are seeing 90%+ uptimes on the ability.
If you buff Frostscythe you run into another issue that it becomes better to press than a non KM Obliterate and its easy to eat the KM proc which you would inevitably complain about. See how Frostreaper prevents tuning from being done?
It doesnt matter if you find it awesome or you think it rules, the fact is that it doesnt and is a detriment to the future of the spec.
They are on warcraft logs.
Frost isn’t as bad as many are saying, but it seems evident to me as an outsider that they were forgotten. This isn’t an objective stance, it’s an observation…so take it with a grain of salt.
From my understanding, 2H frost suffers from bad luck more than most specs due to killing machine procs and short pillar of frost uptime. What’s your take on that?
5 Likes
Truthfully, I really dont care about 2h. It was bandaged on despite people saying if it were to be introduced to do it properly and that didnt happen. Its a DW spec first and foremost.
And no, its not as bad as people are saying. Ive learned that from the years of seeing the same people complain about Frost in general even when its doing really good.
Going to need to run me by the math on this one chief. It would need to hit much much harder for this to be the case. You’ve run into a hypothetical to justify things again, I’ve got plenty complaints about frost dk but tracking my own procs is a me problem not a class one and I certainly wouldn’t take to the forums to rage about it. Trust me, I’m a bit of an expert on myself.
It does matter because I play the spec and I don’t want them removing one of the best things they ever added. It’s not a detriment, it’s great!
Cool so could you link the ones you are talking about so I can read? There are a lot of logs on Warcraft logs and I figure you have them handy.
I see. I think this is where “was forgotten” is largely coming in, since frost used to be 2H way back when, and there’s even a talent to facilitate it, yet it would appear to me that devs echo your sentiment here.
I think all class forums are like this to a large extent. I’ve seen some videos of 2H frost doing decently though, so I’m just investigating atm.
Yeah… if you buff it to the point of it being good on 3+ targets it would need to be like a 300% buff since it would have to do more damage on 3 targets than Obliterate does on 2. Yes, this is a hypothetical if Frostscythe is buffed to the point of being good on 3+ enemies. It could make it so that its better to use Frostscythe instead of base Obliterates and auto attacks can crit and proc KM while you are in the middle of using an ability which would eat the KM proc. This was a complaint with Obliterate vs Frost Strike when both could be used with KM. For 2h you could be in the middle of using Frost Strike but want all of your KM’s to go to Obliterate due to MotFW and you cant do anything about it. It was already a complaint and it would just reignite that complaint. No matter the reaction time you have, as far as I know you cant ability cancel outside of casts.
It is a detriment. There is no way around it and it doesnt matter if you think its cool. Its a detriment to the spec and needs to go.
It was able to use a 2h, but was still a DW spec.
They are but I would say I have seen a better atmosphere in the Warrior forum with the SMF dagger build someone was thinking up using a lot of attack speed and to take advantage of flat damage abilities which it seems to perform ok.
It sounds like you are saying an oblit can turn into a KM crit mid cast? I’ve no idea if that is true or even was true back in the day, need to test.
Numbers are blizzards department, that’s what I was paying my sub for. A touch of balance and no dead talents but here we are.
That’s not very nice. You are wrong here however because of where it is in the talent tree you don’t need to put a point in it if you don’t want to play it.