So can someone explain this to me like i am 5? Because no matter how much i try to wrap my head around this i cannot see a scenario where DS beats SoM. Outside of AoE of course.
With SoM you never run out of mana and you get substantially higher uptime on Vengeance. Also, SoM can proc Art of War and Wildstrikes/Windfury*. Exorcism ends up doing ~25% of my damage when running SoM and just ~12% with DS. While DS itself rarely breaks 10%. Hell, DS can’t even run AoW without going OOM in like a minute.
*Pretty sure anyways, i’ve been getting quite a few more WF procs running SoM. But that might just be down to luck.
Every top Ret is running DS over SoM, but i am personally getting much better results with SoM (10-15%). Unfortunately i cannot post logs because i can’t claim my character, but i am not trying to parse anyways. Maybe just see if someone can help me here.
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You get one less damage ability. The damage given to you by marty will not outdo divine storm. On top of that you get a heal. On top of all that, its an AOE.
The issue really is having to sacrifice 1 damage rune for mana. It is just better to run guardian, not get the reset and have 1 more damage ability as paladin damage is already low.
Divine storm 100% 100% of the time
Have not raided yet, so honest question for those who have:
With the AoW change, does it make sense to run aow over guardian now, and just judge wisdom? maybe even run rank 1 SoC and ignore judgment, especially considering how bad the damage is anyway?
Yeah I’ll tell you. It’s not about DS vs SoM. It’s about DS+SoC vs SoM.
Throw out all the other bullcrap about exorcism and stuff and compare these 2. Take you have a weapon with speed 3.0 that does 400dmg. In a 60 sec fight:
SoM does:
SoM: 20( attacks you make in 60 sec) x 160(40% weapon dmg) = 3200
SoM judge: 7(number of judge you make in 60 sec with 8 sec judge) x280(70% weapon dmg) = 1960
totall = 5160
DS+SoC does:
DS: 6x440(110% weapon dmg) = 2,640
SoC:7( seal of command has a 7PPM)x 280( 70% weapon dmg) =1960
SoCr3 jusdge:7x240( 110 base dmg + 130. 0.43*spell dmg. which you probably have around 300 with sheat of light ) =1680
total=6280
And this is only for single target. As soon as you have 2 or more targets which is all the time in raids and crap, the number significantly goes higher for DS+SoC.
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Thats the math. It just doesnt…add up if you use marty.
If one is running SoM, they should be twisting with Rank 3 SoR.
The problem is, youre looking at %numbers rather than raw dps values. If exo is doing 12 vs 25%, and ds is doing 10%, it sounds like youre 3% down right? But if your overall dps is higher, then the raw value is outweighed.
But also yes, youre forgetting that DS comes with SoC
At 30% weapon damage, you needed a 3.7 speed weapon to make SoC out dps SoM, but with 40%, you need a 4.8 speed weapon, which doesnt exist, so SoM now always out dps’ SoC… but SoM doesnt need to just outdps SoC, it needs to out dps SoC and DS
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Right now im running R1 Command, Martyr apparently just isn’t scaling properly and maybe im wrong but it doesnt seem to be affected by Vengeance (Holy end) and Sanctity Aura as well.
R1 Command im finding my priority to fish for AoW procs is good
Exo > CS > DS > Judgement
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No, on the contrary. The math for DS being the better rune checks out and i am well aware of that. But i am just getting better dps with SoM, by quite a lot too. And i can’t figure out why.
I think my issue might just be encounter lenght, or just outright bad luck with SoC procs.
Weird question - were you a Ret on Wild Growth having this exact conversation in SM last night?
I had this exact conversation with a guy who 100% refused to run Divine Storm insisting Seal of Martyr was better and that Seal of Command was trash.
Latest patch normalized SoM damage. So anything from 2.0+ speed acts as if its a 3.3 speed weapon swing. With AcP and SoM, its pulling ahead almost 80 DPS on single target compared to SoC/DS.
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Automatic Crowd Pummeler. Its a weapon that drops in the new SoD raid Gnomeregan.
Thanks! Didn’t put two and two together. 
The extra procs from AoW should help close that gap, but it’s hard to say if even that would beat out DS + SoC.
SoM getting no damage from SP hurts it quite a bit compared to SoC + DS now that we have Sheath.
Acp will likely make SoM better than DS + SoC.
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Sorry about the late reply, but no. I am on Living Flame.
But i finally realized why SoM was performing so much better than SoC+DS for me. I have ACP. And as Smockedcheese pointed out, SoM+ACP is pretty good. I was under the assumption that SoC would hugely benefit from the haste effect as well, but i guess it doesn’t.
When a mommy and a daddy really really love each other… wait no that isn’t right… lemme think… oh then the female bites the males head off and consumes it. The End.
Top rets are killing the bosses faster than you, so they dont care about going OOM
In pugs that kill bosses slow, ive found that martyr pulls ahead quite a bit over time, DS is better before minute one but once command runs out of procs martyr eventually catches up especially once crits start rolling in assuming your using Art of War
DS and Art of war dont work in slow kill times because youll eventually oom
On short fights DS + Command is better (with twilight avenger)