Divine Steed needs to be Removed

  1. IT REPRESENTS TRULY BAD DESIGN

Mechanic-wise, the ability is utterly atrocious. In terms of closing gaps, it can only work when your opponent is a fool because it can be instantly nullified with any form of CC. You have to use HoF just to make what is supposed to allow us to close gaps even work, meaning we are using two CDs just to make one of them work as intended.

Even if we do waste HoF for this purpose, as stated it can still be nullified by any other form of CC such as Stuns, Fears etc. And this is just the mechanical faults plaguing the ability, we haven’t even touched on the terrain issues it can cause by making the Paladin too big to fit in certain doorways, getting caught on low hanging branches etc.

And finally, a 45 second CD for 3 seconds of easily nullified speed is frankly a joke. It’s far too long for too little an effect and there are no tools or talents that allow Paladins to improve this tool’s effectiveness in any way short of just adding another charge which doesn’t fix any of the many deep seated problems it has.

No matter how you cut it, this ability just does not work for the role it is supposed to play nor does so efficiently.

  1. IT’S A BANDAID FOR AN ARTERIAL WOUND

This ability was introduced at a point when Retribution’s mobility had been gutted as it had never been before and consequently tried to fill in all their shoes when it was clearly an impossible task when it couldn’t even fill one properly.

PoJ, LAotL, SoL
all these mobility tools were thrown out which meant no more consistent or passive speed boosts for Retribution, a spec that was already notoriously derided as the ‘wheelchair’ for being so slow and relatively simple to kite.

Performance-wise, we were relegated to the same slow juggernaut playstyle as Death Knights. Problem is, we didn’t have the mobility tools or offensive utility to properly work that way.

With passive speed boosts, passive utility to prevent them from being slowed below certain speeds and an instant gap closer in the form of Death Grip, Death Knights can make this playstyle work well because they were DESIGNED to work that way. Retribution, on the other hand, wasn’t.

ALL our speed is tied to one terribly designed CD that any half way decent player knows how to easily counter and subsequently leave Retribution a sitting duck forced to chase after people at normal speed for a not insignificant amount of time. No other melee DPS has this kind of obvious and crippling weakness, why?

Divine Steed was just tossed in the mix to try to make up for probably the biggest mobility nerf in our spec’s history and it can’t even do its one job properly without wasting another major CD to make it work.

  1. THIS IS NOT OUR CLASS FANTASY

You want to know what MY class fantasy is? Soaring through the air to cleave Frostmourne in two just like a REAL Retribution Paladin like Tirion Fordring and countless other Paladin NPCs that keep being able to do what the actual playable class has always wanted but never gets.

It NEVER involved mounting a smelly horse and painting a giant bullseye on myself to other players that practically screams ‘HEY EVERYONE I’M TRYING TO MOVE FAST, SNARE ME NOW!’

With all due respect, I think Divine Steed represents what the developers think is the Paladin class fantasy, not that of the people who actually play the class itself. I can count on one hand the number of Paladins I’ve met who actually enjoy this ability instead of fervently praying it is put down and replaced with something that actually works.

SUMMARY

The CD is too atrociously long, the duration is too short, it’s too easily nullified, the increased size causes terrain issues that can get you stuck at inopportune moments, it is simply trying to do too many jobs when it can’t even do one right and just doesn’t fit the class fantasy of the playerbase.

Boring, clunky, and horribly inefficient.

SOLUTION

Give the spec what it has always wanted and what you, the developers, have acknowledged it has always needed when you first tried to implement Turalyon’s Might: an instant gap closer.

You could just use Fordring’s Leap animation since it is unique and recognizable as distinctly Paladin and either use the Cavalier talent slot to give it two charges or lower the CD to something that would allow Retribution to stick to their opponents relatively consistently while taking into account the time in between uses of HoF so it can’t be so easily exploited for kiting.

Deep down, I think in their hearts the developers know this is what needs to happen to make the spec truly complete. As stated earlier, the very fact that they tried albeit briefly to make something like Turalyon’s Might work was an open acknowledgment that they knew Retribution needed a standardized form of gap closing to work properly and be truly competitive.

So I implore the developers
please get rid of this bloated abomination and take the plunge for instant gap closing. Commit to it and make it work, I know they can do it.

37 Likes

I actually do agree the Steed has to go. A holy warrior should feel badass, not poop a go go horse
 feels like Diablo ability / lazy

20 Likes

Didn’t have to read all of that to agree. Always thought that ability felt so stupid

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 Divine Steed is LITERALLY 100% paladin fantasy and 100% part of the paladin mythos in d&d style games. Are you dense?

It totally fits with paladin.

You know what does not.

That is literally not even remotely in anyway associated with any paladin in d&d. Which a lot of the paladin design is from. Which is why the player can not do it.

I agree the ability needs to be looked at.

Perhaps lower the cd or increase its duration, and allow it to break roots.

However if you for one second claim its design is not part of the paladin core. Than you are just wrong and frankly
sad.

10 Likes

The ability is taken straight from d&d paladins. It has been a core ability for years before it was introduced in wow.

2 Likes

It fits YOUR Fantasy, doesn’t mean YOUR fantasy is the fantasy of EVERYONE ELSE.

Retribution was a bane of undead and evils and vengeful of its allies spec, and then we became the basic boring knight in battle in Legion, losing all the undead fantasy, exorcism and everything.

As an ability that’s supposed to move us around it is incredible trashed, lack any form of quality of life and is extremely basic and after 4 years of using it, we’ve been screaming at how horrible it is in real gameplay.

As part of the thought and production involved into the ability, they just slapped our Paladin mount into it instead of making new models, that’s laziness on top of laziness which leads into the worst mobility spell in the game.

Death Advance is only a 30% movement speed and is better than Divine Steed because of the passive it brings with it.

12 Likes

I think it fits our fantasy fantastically. It just need tweaks, an additional effect, snare suppression or removal, longer duration, shorter CD, a lingering additional movement speed buff that decreases overtime after Steed is used
 It needs something to give it more OOMPH.

Alternatively it needs a glyph to remove the steed altogether for our larger Draenei/Tauren brethren so doors aren’t their greatest enemy.

Anyhow, I don’t think yanking out Divine Steed and giving us a Charge on a 20 second CD is going to magically fix the wheelchair problem. We’d probably need additional talents and tools outside of a dispellable BoF.

Then the other question is how will this affect other specs? Does Prot get the charge or keeps Divine Steed? What does Holy do with charge, especially if you play the alternative 40 yard healing playstyle?

3 Likes

Nothing can beat the fantasy of RP walking in arena

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The ability itself is trashed. 45sec cd, 3sec duration? You get rooted or snared or any cc during it and it’s lost forever. Even with the movement suppression effect applied to it, people use their tools reactively, so you’ll remove snares and root when you’ll use it and then people will reapply them instantly resulting in pretty much the same results.

We just need to go directly to the location of our desire, a ground targeted leap or a leap needing a target (like enhance, druid or dh’s felblade leap). Why we can’t have mobility when specs like DH and WW have more than needed mobility to move as they please and sit on their target and do AS MUCH damage as they currently do and I can’t even keep up with my target?

Imagine if Divine Steed instead was just moving you swiftly ‘‘across the battlefield’’ to your targeted ally or enemy or targeted ground location acting like a charge (directly moving your character to the location) instead of a sprint, it’s more like a charge since it forces your character to the location it’s moving you to. The ability remains the same, you atop a horse, but you let go of the sprint thing. Make it remove all snares and roots when used because that will now work better. Maybe even increase your movement speed by 50% for 3sec after you get to your targeted location on the ground (or targeted ally or enemy location) 30sec cd.

I mean the coding to do that already exist, would essentially be pretty easy to just add the same bad and boring paladin steed instead of modeling a new one to appear when used. It’s mashing a charge code + divine steed code.

Glyph of the trusted steed, already exist.

4 Likes

I don’t think anyone is arguing against the ability not being trash. It’s bad, for sure. It needs help but we don’t need to reinvent the wheel or copy everyone else but we should find ways to improve on what we already have.

Maybe mobility is not in the cards and possibly developer intended. I wish we had more insight into their design process.

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You can’t always create and invent new things. All mobility is mostly copy of other classes.

Changing Divine Steed into a ''you select the ground and it’ll bring you there directly or a charge into enemy or ally will fix all the ability problems.

1 Like

I don’t think it’ll necessarily fix all the ability problems. It would need talents designed around to support it otherwise, it’s still worse than a warrior’s charge and has no alternative benefit. We’d need the talent equivalent of Double Time (which exists for steed) and when all else fails, warriors still have a leap to get into or out of combat.

It’s still subject to all of Charge’s weaknesses but with the hypothetical 30 second CD, it’s still worse. The benefit is that you’ll reach your target but a good counterplay, like a stun, will still leave you in No-man’s-land without a second charge or leap.

Actually, now that I’m thinking about it more maybe a really, really crappy charge would work. 1 charge, 45 second - 1 minute CD along with both Steed and blessing of freedom. I still don’t believe it should be our bread 'n butter though and I don’t believe it should replace Steed.

Yes its current iteration is ineffective, but the concept isn’t completely trash

Basically it would be like Prot Warriors pvp talent Dragon Charge, just on a mount with a speed increase at the end. I can get behind that.

1 Like

There’s also Cavalier giving it 2 charges. I’m more into cooldown reduction than charges but whatever.

Essentially it would. Give it a 30yards either the horse take you to the targeted ground location or to targeted enemy or ally, could be whatever they decide to use.

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I like the current divine steed animation but not the mechanics. Having us immune to roots and snares and increasing the duration to 5-6 seconds would probably be all it takes to fix the ability. Alternatively if the cooldown was reduced to 20ish seconds but it stayed as a 3 second sprint that would be awesome.

My dream is for us to have a heroic leap type ability where we summon our avenging wrath wings graphic and use them to fly to the target.

(Also a glide ability using avenging wrath wings would amazing, but that’s not what this post is about).

2 Likes

I’ve thought about reducing the CD by half on Divine Steed, but doing that won’t fix the underlying problem: too easily countered by snares/roots/CC. If you make it immune to snares/roots, it can still be countered by hard CC plus it might give us TOO much immunity to be balanced when grouped with HoF and be ripe for nerfs that would put us back into the same situation to balance it.

I just don’t see Divine Steed as salvageable. It’s trying to do too many jobs and just doesn’t have the flexibility to make it work without either being too powerful or remaining too limited. It’s just not a good idea to depend on a sprint to close gaps as a melee anyways, instant closers are just far more effective and cut out the vulnerabilities inherent to sprints to ensure you will get to your target no matter what.

I’m personally of the opinion that Divine Steed should be removed as an ability and the old talent Speed of Light brought in to replace it as a more balanced speed increase. While I don’t like Divine Steed at all, I will agree that the class as a whole could use a standardized speed boost for reasons beyond just closing gaps.

Making Speed of Light baseline would allow Holy and Protection to have a way to still move quickly if they need to and make up for the loss of Divine Steed with a longer speed increase while the Cavalier talent for these two specs could be reworked around lowering their SoL CD or giving it some other beneficial effect.

Retribution having this as well would allow them to have a means of quickly getting out of bad positioning though it would need to be used wisely. For Retribution however, I believe they alone should have an instant gap closer implemented as well that is solely built around closing with an opponent quickly which is where the spec is notoriously weak from a PvP standpoint as well as being a problem during high movement PvE fights.

In my mind at least, Protection doesn’t really need an instant gap closer since it has Avengers Shield to effectively grab aggro from range and not having one does not seem to negatively affect its performance compared to other tanks in a PvE environment. I will admit however that I am more familiar with the intricacies of Retribution over Protection so if a knowledgeable Prot Paladin believes otherwise, I’m very much interested to hear why.

For Retribution, we can similarly replace the Cavalier talent with something that deals with their instant gap closer or buffs something like HoF to lower the duration at which they can be snared or something.

I’ve seen people mention D&D as a reason for why Divine Steed makes sense too. It might make sense from that standpoint, but this isn’t D&D though, it’s WoW and a place where old ideas about what original fantasy classes used to be don’t necessarily have to remain the standard. We can innovate and evolve, we don’t have to be carbon copies of another game, we can make something new.

To echo what so many have said about Divine Steed already, just because it might fit with the class doesn’t mean it’s good. I don’t think we should accept flavor over performance, I think it’s perfectly possible for the developers to combine both and should be something we should push for instead of settling for something most everyone can agree is beyond mediocre.

EDIT

I’d also like to reiterate to the developers that HoF should be reserved for its intended purpose: getting ourselves or teammate out of snares/roots and giving us freedom of movement at critical moments.

It is should NOT be necessary just to get in melee range of our opponents because Divine Steed cannot do so on its own. Again, that’s just bad design. If we’re having to use HoF just to initially get to grips with our opponents, we’re being robbed of the flexibility to reserve it for when it SHOULD be used.

That’s why its so important for Retribution to have a quick and efficient mechanic to instantly get to grips with their opponent on its own so abilities critical to our continued mobility like HoF can be used when we actually need them.

How about paladins being a mounted unit in WCII? I think that’s a fair justification.

Now, they way it was implemented was garbage, but I don’t see any issue with having paladins fight mounted conceptually. They just need to make it work in a way that isn’t awful.

1 Like

Points about the specific tuning of the ability aside - the idea that summoning our class exclusive holy steed to carry us apace in battle somehow doesn’t fit the class fantasy of the WoW paladin is actually one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard.

But if people really hate it that much, what I’d personally do were I at the helm is give them “Glyph of Speed of Light” where the animation of Divine Steed is replaced by the animation from the MoP talent Speed of Light.

Ba-boom.

2 Likes

It’s a lame ability that is not very functional. The Prot PVP version is cool and impactful and I wouldn’t complain if we had THAT at least but here we are.

2 Likes

I think the steed pvp talent should be baseline honestly, It would balance it out a bit. :stuck_out_tongue:
Also it’s fun to watch all those players fly in the air when you speed past them.

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