Discussion: Skill-Based Difficulty, Time-Based Difficulty, and Value Preservation

[Qyune-exodar]

@Haelsing-stormrage

Figure I’ll throw my two cents into the pile.

X45-Heartbreaker:
Personally I’m in the camp of making the drop-rate a bit more in line with other rare mounts given it’s limited availability, but it also feels to me like a problem with no real solution.
Any change or lack thereof would anger a portion of the playerbase. The devs are kinda screwed either way.

I appreciate your two cents! At least us admitting that there is no easy solution here, gives a little credence and validation to both sides of the conversation. It also justifies the necessary time it takes to have these conversations. I think there could be options out there that could be discovered through brainstorming that may ultimately be a win for everyone. However, like you said, these are difficulty to find, because we need to take into account the thoughts and opinions of:

1. Those who have put in the time and effort and have the reward
2. Those who have put in the time and effort and do not have the reward yet
3. Those who have not put in the time and effort and have the reward
4. Those who have not put in the time and effort and do not have the reward yet
5. Those who could not care less one way or the other

@Haelsing-stormrage

Legacy Skips:
Most legacy raids don’t need them. But SoO and ToT could probably benefit from them.
The reason they started adding in raid skips was to alleviate the chore of reclearing long chonky raids, and help guilds focus on farming end-raid rewards when the rest was on farm.
A skip to Durumu in ToT means folks who want the mounts would still need to clear as much of ToT as they always have. Value perhaps preserved? In my eyes that’s a decent compromise.
A skip in Siege is a bit of a sticky wicket any way you slice it. The juiciest rewards are on Garrosh, so any fast forward to those rewards could arguably diminish the prestige/item value/preservation of value.
But from a design standpoint Siege should’ve had one to begin with. Every single raid with a skip function has fewer bosses than Siege. Most of which offer the same reward structure, with a rare mount/transmog at the end that gives the skip it’s value and incentive.
But as someone who’s already collected all the mounts/tusks out of ToT and Siege, I personally think there’s more to be gained than lost from adding skips to those two raids.
It’s also my personal opinion that they’ll probably never bother to do it. They’ve had the chance to do so for 8+ years.

Again, another reasonable take here giving credence and consideration to both sides of the conversation. Though I want to highlight something really important you said that developers should look at now!

@Haelsing-stormrage

A skip in Siege is a bit of a sticky wicket any way you slice it. The juiciest rewards are on Garrosh, so any fast forward to those rewards could arguably diminish the prestige/item value/preservation of value.
But from a design standpoint Siege should’ve had one to begin with. Every single raid with a skip function has fewer bosses than Siege.

If developers had placed skips into SoO in any of the 14 months it was the most current content, then you would not hear a single word from me regarding skips. At the time, if the developers and the community collectively decided to reduce the difficulty of clears for any reason during its malleable phase (current content), then the communal value would have been set. However, they chose not to, making it one of the more challenging legacy raids to run with respect to time. Furthermore, not only have people spent the skill / time when the content was current, but also people have spent the time since the content has been legacy. So, for now, yeah, let’s keep that locked in place. We can brainstorm ideas later, but for now let’s at least look at lessons learned from a design perspective and ask ourselves, “What can we learn from this?”.

My first response to that question would be to add skips to current content now! Maybe adding skips should be a default practice now that would prevent the scenario we have with SoO in the future – no real solution. If there is anything at the end in of Sepulcher of the First Ones (like a mount for example), then this conversation is going to come up again in 3 years as people are chasing after that mount.

Also, maybe putting some ‘juicy’ rare rewards like some unique and rare mail shoulders on the 3rd or 4th boss might be an option to consider. Maybe not. Again, just brainstorming, because I don’t have to spend my entire conversation defending those who enjoy a particular play style.

@Haelsing-stormrage

Balance of Power:
Another case of no real solution. And also something I seriously doubt they’ll bother tinkering with.
If it were me I’d add a Threads of Fate type of option to Legion’s storyline, along with other expansions with clearly defined story quest lines.
It could also get folded into Chromie Time as a way to level alts through World Quests/Dailies, with a zone wide quest to work towards that gives juicy xp and a weapon/trinket reward, ala Reinforcing Revendreth/Rallying Maldraxxus.
With those story quest requirements out of the way you’re left with everything else, the sweet sweet grind. Which is pretty easy even for a Lv60 in ZM 226 gear.
Grind relatively intact, value preserved? Fair compromise?
But either way my money’s on things staying the same, with legacy content left on the waysides while they focus on Dragonflight.

Honestly, I think this is a neat idea! Maybe incorporating a questing series that pushes you to get your Artifact first, then, like you said, through the story requirements of Balance of Power would be a great option! Nothing here would take away from achievement of earning each one. Additionally, players would be able to complete some of the requirements and level up another character at the same time if they chose to.